Forgetting to do eAPIS

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lock15
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Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by lock15 »

I recently ferried a purchased aircraft from the United States into Canada for a Canadian flight college. I am a flight instructor at that Canadian college and had a special flight authorization from the FAA and ferry permit to do the flight. I know eAPIS is for aircraft that cross the U.S. border coming or going, but I'm just curious if I should have filed eAPIS, and if there could be repercussions going forward since I forgot.

Any help would be appreciated. I should note that I haven't heard anything from any government as of yet in terms of not filing eAPIS.

Thanks
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photofly
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by photofly »

Yes, you should have filed an eAPIS report. Repercussions are a $5000 fine for the first offence; $10,000 for the second.
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Redneck_pilot86
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by Redneck_pilot86 »

You're fine. Keep your mouth shut, if they really want to find you they will, but you're not the type they are looking for. I've only filed an exit eAPIS once in 4 years, never been an issue. They might tell you what you did wrong, be polite, apologize and carry on.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by photofly »

I once had a rude letter from my buddy Ralph, over at DHS, saying they had a record of my registration leaving the U.S. without an eAPIS filing, they were opening an investigation with a view to assessing the $5k penalty, and did I have anything to say about it?

What I had to say was that the registration quoted wasn't my airplane - and had no connection to me. I gave him the filing report number for my flight. Ralph emailed me right back to say sorry, he'd misread a line in his spreadsheet. I sometimes wonder who got hit with the fine. Some guy in BC, I think.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by anofly »

they are not half as excited about you leaving as they are about you coming. They told me on the phone they dont even watch leavings , mind you your email indicates that they do , .If you do a two way in and out, make sure you say where you are leaving from and the time. I called them when I got stuck in bad weather leaving thus a delay, and tney said just go, we dont pay much attention to leaving. Best check with them mind you for current rules. Its not half the fun it was 20 years ago... cheers fly safe
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lock15
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by lock15 »

Thanks for the insight. Does the fact that I am not the registered owner make a difference? Like I mentionned, the school purchased it and I was the assigned pilot for ferrying it. I'm assuming no, but just wanted to clarify.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by photofly »

No; you were the PIC and so you're on the hook. You can 'fess up, and hope for leniency, or hope the paperwork never catches up with you. I don't think they can force you to pay a fine if the letter from Ralph arrives, but they'll never let you back into the USA if you don't.

Did you fly it under the N-reg, or the new C- one?
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by GyvAir »

If there is no eAPIS account associated with your name, your employer's name or the aircraft registration, you may just remain under the radar on this. If they can't just click and send you an email/fine, the manpower may not be allocated for enforcing the system manually for every single departure.
You're supposed to file a similar document when you're going to export a car from the USA. Lots of people fail to do it, but follow-up nastygrams for not doing so are quite sporadic.

Don't forget the eAPIS going the other direction (it used to only be required for arriving stateside). The enforcement then is near 100%, especially if it’s not your first time.
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lock15
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by lock15 »

photofly wrote:No; you were the PIC and so you're on the hook. You can 'fess up, and hope for leniency, or hope the paperwork never catches up with you. I don't think they can force you to pay a fine if the letter from Ralph arrives, but they'll never let you back into the USA if you don't.

Did you fly it under the N-reg, or the new C- one?

I flew under the new C-reg.
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photofly
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by photofly »

With luck the U.S. administration isn't sufficiently joined up to notice.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by AirFrame »

They aren't really very picky about departure eAPIS filings anyway... It seems they care most about there being one exit for every entry. If you file an eAPIS for departure and need to amend the departure time, don't bother changing the eAPIS... Just tell Canada Border Services, amend your flight plan, and then go.

If this was a one-way trip with no entry eAPIS, then there's probably nothing in their system to make them look for you.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by karmutzen »

Good luck trying to explain to any authority that you "forgot" to file an eAPIS. Local charter operators that misspelt a name or got a digit wrong on a passport number eat all kinds of fines and grief, and you forgot to file one altogether? Lay low and beg forgiveness if they ever come calling, but you could have screwed yourself from ever crossing the border again - not good if you ever want to advance beyond instructing at a flight school.

It is dead easy to file eAPIS on-line. And as AirFrame says, you don't have to cancel if you decide not to go, or modify if the crossing is within a reasonable "window" of time, like say 4-6 hours.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by cgartly »

I forgot to do an eApis filing exiting the US about a year ago and was a bit panicked so I called US Customs. They advised that I should file it after the fact - better late then never.

I would suggest you file an eApis as soon as possible reporting that you left the USA.
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photofly
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by photofly »

That's a very good point. An eAPIS filing is used to record your (personal) departure from the US. There's currently no record of you leaving the USA, so six months following your arrival you will have the status of overstaying.

I think on reflection you should probably sort this out, otherwise it could bite you next time you go to the US, by air, land or sea.

This page will show you all your entries and exits to the USA, including eAPIS filings and scheduled airlines. Have a look and see if you have a departure record:
https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/consent.html
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by Prodriver »

They really only care that you leave on the day you said and with the passport numbers on the AC as they need to stop the days in USA from adding up. If you never left they will wonder why you were there for so long I think? Or at least that is the way they like to portray it.
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Last edited by Prodriver on Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by Lurch »

A lot of mis-information on here.

Yes they do care about departure reports just as much as arrival. The big difference is there is a Customs officers on your arrival, no such agent on the departure.

I missed an exit filing in the first year. I remembered the next day, figured it was too late and forgot all about it. 6 months later when I flew that same Reg into the States I got the nasty email, this is after multiple entries and exits. He "forgave" my transgretion and warned me not to do it again. Months later I forgot again, but this time I filed it the next day with a departure that day, never heard anything about it.

The EAPIS filing is linked to the registration. If I understand you correctly, you flew a newly Canadian Registered plane out of the USA. If this is in fact true then they won't have any record of its entry. Therefore when it enters back into the USA on its next trip nothing will appear out of sorts.

Personally if I was you I would just file the departure report and wash my hands of it, worst case they catch it and you say "sorry, I won't do it again."

You can probably also get away with doing nothing.

The bigger pain is when you ferry a plane down to the USA that gets N Registered. Eventually the new Canadian Reg owner flies down and you need to answer a lot of question about why you didn't file your departure, when in fact the plane never left the USA.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by Lurch »

karmutzen wrote:Good luck trying to explain to any authority that you "forgot" to file an eAPIS. Local charter operators that misspelt a name or got a digit wrong on a passport number eat all kinds of fines and grief, and you forgot to file one altogether? Lay low and beg forgiveness if they ever come calling, but you could have screwed yourself from ever crossing the border again - not good if you ever want to advance beyond instructing at a flight school.

It is dead easy to file eAPIS on-line. And as AirFrame says, you don't have to cancel if you decide not to go, or modify if the crossing is within a reasonable "window" of time, like say 4-6 hours.
There are no fines for private individuals, I have screwed up passport numbers as while as an old passport. They just pointed out the mistake and carried on.

Yes Charter companies and airlines are a completely different story, they will get fined.

You count as a private individual so don't sweat it.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by Broken Slinky »

Would filling out NASA Form 277B get you a "get out of jail free card" on this matter?
There is a US Gov't website where you can view a log of all of your border crossings. It's pretty detailed. Can't remember the site but will ask someone who does. It may work to your advantage to clear the matter up now if you're ever going to apply for a work visa or something in the US. It may be just the sort of red flag they're looking for to deny you.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by photofly »

Broken Slinky wrote: There is a US Gov't website where you can view a log of all of your border crossings. It's pretty detailed. Can't remember the site but will ask someone who does.
I already posted it, above.
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Re: Forgetting to do eAPIS

Post by cgartly »

photofly wrote:
Broken Slinky wrote: There is a US Gov't website where you can view a log of all of your border crossings. It's pretty detailed. Can't remember the site but will ask someone who does.
I already posted it, above.
Thanks for the link, it is kind of neat. Seems like there is some lag in the data though. I have crossed the border several times since May 2015 yet that is the last entry on my list. I have crossed the border both via land and air several times since then but they do not show.

Perhaps it depends on how the individual CBP officer logs the info. I have an equal number or arrivals and departures. However not all of my arrivals and departures match either.

Weird!
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