Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?

[Hozer]

Hey Guys,

It's been a long time since I have flown privately for fun. I currently fly for an airline so I am current. I've tried to get a hold of the good folks at transport and have got nothing but answering machines and email addresses. While I wait to hear from them, I'll ask here. I have access to a Piper Saratoga II, that I can use whenever I want. Does anyone know if it is considered a "High Performance" aircraft in regards to licensing? I have never flown the aircraft before and what to know what would be required to get proficient and legal on the thing. I have various other type ratings (SW3/SW4, BE20, DH8, E170) and my license states I have the blanket rating for SMEL which I believe doesn't include "High Performance".

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,

Hozer

[Shiny Side Up]

The Saratoga doesn't fall under the "high performance" criteria, so you're good to go. I'm sure someone will beat me to the CARs reference. Its a fat cherokee after all.

edit: anyone else have trouble with the CARs site with a hand-held device? For some reason everytime i try to scroll down the page it will randomly snap back to the top of the page.

[Hozer]

Thanks man, I get lost in the CAR's all the time. Appreciate it!

[iflyforpie]

I believe 'high performance' in Canada mean an aircraft that has a stall speed higher than 61 (or 63... or somewhere in that range) knots calibrated and/or a VNE higher than 250 knots. I'm too lazy to look it up.

In America.. they say it's any plane with more than 200HP or with retractable gear, flaps, and a constant speed prop.

[Shiny Side Up]

As a point of reference on the matter, I don't think there are any certified piston singles that fall into the high performance classification. Even the fastest Mooney, which I think is the current leader of the pack for speed, only tops out at 239 knots, which is under the threshold of 250 knots as I recall. None breech the wing loading threshold, nor do any have a terribly high stall speed, which are the other two factors. Most of the home builts that are in the classification as i recall are due to wing loading, the Vari-eze being an example.

[Hozer]

I think I'm good with the SMEL Blanket rating. I just found this on the CARs website.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 7-1396.htm

What do you guys think?

[Hozer]

And This
“high-performance aeroplane”
“high-performance aeroplane”, with respect to a rating, means

(a) an aeroplane that is specified in the minimum flight crew document as requiring only one pilot and that has a maximum speed (Vne) of 250 KIAS or greater or a stall speed (Vso) of 80 KIAS or greater, or
(b) an amateur-built aeroplane that has a wing loading greater than that specified in section 549.103 of the Airworthiness Manual; (avion à hautes performances)

[Hozer]

Vne is 191K, Vso 63K

[nbinont]

Most of the home builts that are in the classification as i recall are due to wing loading, the Vari-eze being an example.

Wing loading limits for amateur-built: 20.4 lb/sq ft https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... b-1786.htm

Some amateur-builts exceed the speed limits (but also exceed the wing loading):
Glasair III: 291Kt Vne (242 cruise), wing loading 29.5 lb/sq ft http://www.glasairaviation.com/glasair-specs.html
Questair Venture 300Kt Vne (240 cruise), wing loading 27.6 lb/sq ft http://www.questairventure.com/specs.html

I guess one would need a type rating for those.

I wonder if one would need a type rating for a amateur-built with a Vne > 250, but wing loading less than 20.4.

[grimey]

I wonder if one would need a type rating for a amateur-built with a Vne > 250, but wing loading less than 20.4.

Yes. "amateur-built aeroplane" is a subset of aeroplane. It would be a high performance aircraft under paragraph a, regardless of whether it qualified under paragraph b.

101.1(1)
...
“aeroplane”
“aeroplane” means a power-driven heavier-than-air aircraft that derives its lift in flight from aerodynamic reactions on surfaces that remain fixed during flight; (avion)



549.5 Construction

(a) Aircraft, including those supplied in kit form, will be designated as amateur-built aircraft, where the major portion of the aircraft (more than 50%) is fabricated from raw material and assembled by an individual or a group of individuals on a non-commercial, non-production basis for educational or recreational purposes

[trey kule]

Hozer

Just a bit of a word of caution. Your license allows you to fly the plane legally.
If it has been many years since you flew a small light plane, get a good checkout. They fly different and the accidents stats for airline pilots returning from the dark side after years away bear (bare?) that out.. Sort of of a "shucks , I fly big iron so this little thing is bugger all"
Some very amusing and humbling incidents.

But way more fun...enjoy.

[JigglyBus]

I just learned that a Westland Lysander can do 300mph in a dive.

I would have bet against that.

[NotDirty!]

I just learned that a Westland Lysander can do 300mph in a dive.

I would have bet against that.

Just a bit of a word of caution. Your license allows you to fly the plane legally.

"Can" and "Should" are two completely different things! [somewhat ironically, that comment applies to both of the previous posts]