Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
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Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
Hey Guys,
It's been a long time since I have flown privately for fun. I currently fly for an airline so I am current. I've tried to get a hold of the good folks at transport and have got nothing but answering machines and email addresses. While I wait to hear from them, I'll ask here. I have access to a Piper Saratoga II, that I can use whenever I want. Does anyone know if it is considered a "High Performance" aircraft in regards to licensing? I have never flown the aircraft before and what to know what would be required to get proficient and legal on the thing. I have various other type ratings (SW3/SW4, BE20, DH8, E170) and my license states I have the blanket rating for SMEL which I believe doesn't include "High Performance".
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks,
Hozer
It's been a long time since I have flown privately for fun. I currently fly for an airline so I am current. I've tried to get a hold of the good folks at transport and have got nothing but answering machines and email addresses. While I wait to hear from them, I'll ask here. I have access to a Piper Saratoga II, that I can use whenever I want. Does anyone know if it is considered a "High Performance" aircraft in regards to licensing? I have never flown the aircraft before and what to know what would be required to get proficient and legal on the thing. I have various other type ratings (SW3/SW4, BE20, DH8, E170) and my license states I have the blanket rating for SMEL which I believe doesn't include "High Performance".
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks,
Hozer
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Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
The Saratoga doesn't fall under the "high performance" criteria, so you're good to go. I'm sure someone will beat me to the CARs reference. Its a fat cherokee after all.
edit: anyone else have trouble with the CARs site with a hand-held device? For some reason everytime i try to scroll down the page it will randomly snap back to the top of the page.
edit: anyone else have trouble with the CARs site with a hand-held device? For some reason everytime i try to scroll down the page it will randomly snap back to the top of the page.
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Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
Thanks man, I get lost in the CAR's all the time. Appreciate it!
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Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
I believe 'high performance' in Canada mean an aircraft that has a stall speed higher than 61 (or 63... or somewhere in that range) knots calibrated and/or a VNE higher than 250 knots. I'm too lazy to look it up.
In America.. they say it's any plane with more than 200HP or with retractable gear, flaps, and a constant speed prop.
In America.. they say it's any plane with more than 200HP or with retractable gear, flaps, and a constant speed prop.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
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Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
As a point of reference on the matter, I don't think there are any certified piston singles that fall into the high performance classification. Even the fastest Mooney, which I think is the current leader of the pack for speed, only tops out at 239 knots, which is under the threshold of 250 knots as I recall. None breech the wing loading threshold, nor do any have a terribly high stall speed, which are the other two factors. Most of the home builts that are in the classification as i recall are due to wing loading, the Vari-eze being an example.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
I think I'm good with the SMEL Blanket rating. I just found this on the CARs website.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 7-1396.htm
What do you guys think?
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 7-1396.htm
What do you guys think?
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
And This
“high-performance aeroplane”
“high-performance aeroplane”, with respect to a rating, means
(a) an aeroplane that is specified in the minimum flight crew document as requiring only one pilot and that has a maximum speed (Vne) of 250 KIAS or greater or a stall speed (Vso) of 80 KIAS or greater, or
(b) an amateur-built aeroplane that has a wing loading greater than that specified in section 549.103 of the Airworthiness Manual; (avion à hautes performances)
“high-performance aeroplane”
“high-performance aeroplane”, with respect to a rating, means
(a) an aeroplane that is specified in the minimum flight crew document as requiring only one pilot and that has a maximum speed (Vne) of 250 KIAS or greater or a stall speed (Vso) of 80 KIAS or greater, or
(b) an amateur-built aeroplane that has a wing loading greater than that specified in section 549.103 of the Airworthiness Manual; (avion à hautes performances)
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
Wing loading limits for amateur-built: 20.4 lb/sq ft https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... b-1786.htmShiny Side Up wrote:Most of the home builts that are in the classification as i recall are due to wing loading, the Vari-eze being an example.
Some amateur-builts exceed the speed limits (but also exceed the wing loading):
Glasair III: 291Kt Vne (242 cruise), wing loading 29.5 lb/sq ft http://www.glasairaviation.com/glasair-specs.html
Questair Venture 300Kt Vne (240 cruise), wing loading 27.6 lb/sq ft http://www.questairventure.com/specs.html
I guess one would need a type rating for those.
I wonder if one would need a type rating for a amateur-built with a Vne > 250, but wing loading less than 20.4.
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
Yes. "amateur-built aeroplane" is a subset of aeroplane. It would be a high performance aircraft under paragraph a, regardless of whether it qualified under paragraph b.nbinont wrote: I wonder if one would need a type rating for a amateur-built with a Vne > 250, but wing loading less than 20.4.
101.1(1)
...
“aeroplane”
“aeroplane” means a power-driven heavier-than-air aircraft that derives its lift in flight from aerodynamic reactions on surfaces that remain fixed during flight; (avion)
549.5 Construction
(a) Aircraft, including those supplied in kit form, will be designated as amateur-built aircraft, where the major portion of the aircraft (more than 50%) is fabricated from raw material and assembled by an individual or a group of individuals on a non-commercial, non-production basis for educational or recreational purposes
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
Hozer
Just a bit of a word of caution. Your license allows you to fly the plane legally.
If it has been many years since you flew a small light plane, get a good checkout. They fly different and the accidents stats for airline pilots returning from the dark side after years away bear (bare?) that out.. Sort of of a "shucks , I fly big iron so this little thing is bugger all"
Some very amusing and humbling incidents.
But way more fun...enjoy.
Just a bit of a word of caution. Your license allows you to fly the plane legally.
If it has been many years since you flew a small light plane, get a good checkout. They fly different and the accidents stats for airline pilots returning from the dark side after years away bear (bare?) that out.. Sort of of a "shucks , I fly big iron so this little thing is bugger all"
Some very amusing and humbling incidents.
But way more fun...enjoy.
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
I just learned that a Westland Lysander can do 300mph in a dive.
I would have bet against that.
I would have bet against that.
Re: Dos the PA-32R-301 fall under "SMEL"?
JigglyBus wrote:I just learned that a Westland Lysander can do 300mph in a dive.
I would have bet against that.
"Can" and "Should" are two completely different things! [somewhat ironically, that comment applies to both of the previous posts]trey kule wrote: Just a bit of a word of caution. Your license allows you to fly the plane legally.