seeking advice

[Joe357]

This is my story:
I’m a class 4 instructor with 850 hours. Started teaching at 500 hours. IFR group 1.
Over two years ago I walked in into this school in the Montreal area , I had a talk with the CFI, I showed him my TC commercial license and explained my intention of becoming and work as an instructor. No additional explanation or question were necessary, he immediately offered to train me and hired me upon graduation. During this kind of interview I was asked and suggested to work full time for him, since he would give priority to a full time employee rather than a part time. As you can imagine I immediately accepted the full time offer. After this event, I had no hesitation and started the training immediately. I even quit my job (big mistake) in order to be fully committed and focused. I was looking forward to get my instructor rating ASAP and to start working right after.

Since my graduation I never had something that I can consider a Job, either full or part time.
Only random-weekends students have been given to me ever since. I pretty much work only during weekends, but I’m forced and sometimes threatened to be at school during weekdays (with no pay whatsoever) just to seat around in case a costumer walks into the school. I quickly understand that “full time job” only meant “full time unpaid availability”. Same condition of most of my instructors colleagues.

One day last summer (during our daily unpaid attendance at the school) all the instructors were called in a room for a meeting. Topic of the meeting: the school written exams (PPL, CPL, IFR, ATPL, TWIN, PSTAR etc) needed to be corrected (apparently many of the answers were totally wrong) re-tape-written, re-formatted and re-arranged into a computer file. Hundreds of them with hundreds of questions each. Obviously no pay or reward was even mentioned. Another meeting instructor only was arranged right after the first one. We all agreed that this was just too much and decided to refuse the assignment. The same day all of us, one at the time were called in the CFI office for a private talk. During this chat I have basically been threatened of being immediately fired if the job was not to be accepted and carried out. I spent together with my colleagues almost 3 weeks of intense work, taping, copying and correcting those exams. No reward or appreciation has ever been manifested towards us.

Ten instructors (for a 12 planes fleet) work at the school. Average yearly number of hours flown per instructor goes from 50 to 200. Exception made for one single guy who goes up to 500-600 hours per year due to his ability of being the CFI’s hears and eyes everywhere he goes, reporting to him the move of anyone and anything and for being just a natural suck up. No equity, fairness or team play whatsoever.
Last year I made a total of 150 hours, I stared as a class 4 almost 2 years ago, and today I’m still class 4. I have never been given a student with some level of stability and consistency during his/her training. (we do have integrated full time students. Guess who gets them all???)As you can imagine I had to find another job on the side to be able to survive. I finally got a job as a night time ramp agent. I was “making some money” at night and attending my daily unpaid attendance at the school during day time, waiting for the weekend to arrive and finally fly. Many times I’ve been accused of being unprofessional and negligent for arriving late at school and for “looking like shit” due to the sometimes incompatible schedules of the two jobs but mostly for lack of sleep. But I didn’t last too long. After 6 months of fast food and random sleep, one night after my night shift I fainted during my walk home. I decided to quit my ramping job. Since then I’m pretty much stuck with an average income of 300$ a month, out of weekends flying. In order to pay my bills, I sold my car, my gym equipment, my bike and I occasionally work in disgusting night clubs wiping up tables in order to finish to pay the bank loan, taken to finance my instructor rating.
Two weeks ago 4 new instructors were hired. Now we are 14. More instructors than planes. Why??????????????????

Any idea?
Any contacts?
Any school hiring? Even as a dispatcher, rampy or anything to start with. Anywhere.

[Rookie50]

Wow. Can't help you or advise you, but I do empathize. Really. That's a horrible racket. I'm sure others here will add constructive suggestions. Best wishes.

[AvExpress]

Surely you can find employment at another school? I'd say don't be afraid to move, but you already sold your car With 850TT you could also find employment right seat of a king air. Don't continue to abuse yourself by being abused by this school.

[digits_]

Basically you are unemployed, since you aren't making any money. Why not treat it like that and go drive around the country to look for a real , paying job ? I know it is harsh to hear, and probably very hard to do, but don't let people treat you that way. Leave. Even if it means getting a job outside of aviation for now. Any real job will make you more than 300 / month.

[DanWEC]

Get out of there. Reset. Don't look back, have some confidence. Take another job for a while and treat yourself with some self worth! Jesus. Sounds like you're Stockholming or something and just digging in deeper. You've already said it was all a big mistake, so why are you continuing it? You're only worth what you think you are.....
I don't mean to sound harsh, but at this point, you can only blame yourself if you let yourself get dragged through the mud and don't do anything about it.

850 hours isn't peanuts, at least you've gotten some time. Most instructors seem to move on at about 1100-1200 hrs though.

[Shiny Side Up]

Just leave immediately. Get work, get yourself above water then look elsewhere. Sadly, if this is the school I think it is, I've run into escapees from it applying to work for me and unfortunately given that they don't seem to be able to function anymore outside of that toxic workplace, they're un-hireable outside of it. If you're going to make a clean break, and I'd encourage you to make sure the rest of the staff does as well, you'll have to accept that elsewhere you're going to be starting from scratch and will have to hear some different ways of doing things.

The real unfortunate thing is that so many instructors dig themselves into this kind of hole. You don't need the hours and the job that badly. You don't owe student/customers who partake of this racket nothing. If pilots stopped whoring themselves out like this, this problem would fix itself, but unfortunately there will be more to take your place.

[HiFlyChick]

Joe - you deserve to be treated better than that. While what happened to you was totally crappy and unfair, it's obviously not going to improve and you need to get out of there fast. I agree with Digits, any full time job is better than what you're doing now, even if it means going outside of aviation for the time being. Keep looking for a real flying job, but for goodness sake, quit as soon as you find any job that pays better (which basically means from McDonalds upward). I was gonna say quit tomorrow, but you still need to eat, so start looking tomorrow and quit ASAP afterwards!

[esp803]

Montair moved to Montreal?

GTFO

E

[7ECA]

Montair moved to Montreal?

GTFO

E

[pianokeys]

As everyone said, get out. Find something else, even in another industry?

Think about this, all those other instructors are probably in the same boat as you. Looking for work. No, hungry for work. I pitty the poor student who walks through that door as they will get bombarded by instructors. Then think about this, think about the volatile work environment that creates... "You stole my student!"

Cut your losses and move on.

[North Shore]

Not so fast, Grasshopper! Use any pretext you can to get hold of those exam files that you and your brethren worked on. *Then* put in a claim for the time worked, at your normal instructing rate..once you've got that, then the boss gets his files back, and you move on...
Boot-f@$k the cheap-as$ SOB as hard as you can!

[seasonaldriver]

I agree with North Shore. Hopefully all the other Instructors will be with you.
Maybe the labour board(or whatever it is called) can do something for you as well?

[armchair]

As much as I hate to say this, the worst thing you can do is start some proceedings against the SOB or start a small war. Reality is that while you may make a small insignificant dent in the world of assholes running small aviation units, the worst damage will be made to yourself. Aviation is a small world and you don't want to burn bridges, even if ethically you have grounds to do so. Fighting this guy or school will only hurt you in the end. Just move along and offer your skills elsewhere. Resign peacefully with a forced smile and no afterthoughts, no insults thrown for good measure, even if you are tempted to do so. Find you next job, get to 1200 hrs, then move to another assholes-filled sector like 702 or 703 and start over. Until you get to 704. Then 705. But make sure you dont get labelled, cuz then you might as well become a plumber. (in fact, good idea to do so anyway).

[TG]

then move to another assholes-filled sector like 702 or 703 and start over. Until you get to 704. Then 705.

It's not all about 705.
There is some very nice 702's places to be.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Run, don't walk away. Don't even waste your time telling them that you are going. Based on the story, you are likely being asked to do something unsafe at the same time, if that is the case you are eligible for ei. Use it.

[cncpc]

Name the school.

Look to whether you have an employment contract of any plausible nature.

Look to the issue of whether you were falsely induced to spend money there getting your rating.

[EPR]

Don't forget to get your log book certified before you pull the chute!

[rob-air]

How is that school even surviving, seems like you guys are never out, if i am right on guessing which school we are talking about.

9 instructor who average 50 to 200 yearly lets say 150 each so total is 1350 total

plus top gun that racks up 550

so that is 1900 hrs yearly for ten planes.....

You wont have to quit, you ll get laid off.

[SuperchargedRS]

Any idea?
Any contacts?
Any school hiring? Even as a dispatcher, rampy or anything to start with. Anywhere.

Sounds like your his b1tch, and you apparently like it, quite sad really.

If you don't even respect yourself any operator would be a fool to think you would, or even could, have any respect for the customers, aircraft, let alone the industry.

I can't think of anyone who would hire a pilot with such a huge lack of self respect.


Sorry dude.

[KAG]

A$$hole comments aside, it's time to leave.
Anywhere, doing anything.

[loopa]

Any idea?
Any contacts?
Any school hiring? Even as a dispatcher, rampy or anything to start with. Anywhere.

Sounds like your his b1tch, and you apparently like it, quite sad really.

If you don't even respect yourself any operator would be a fool to think you would, or even could, have any respect for the customers, aircraft, let alone the industry.

I can't think of anyone who would hire a pilot with such a huge lack of self respect.


Sorry dude.

Hahah for real? Wow... I hope I'm just reading sarcasm here.

As to the OP, get out. It's simple. Even if you have to do something different for a bit to make ends meet, do it - preferably in aviation. A lot of places are hiring. The most important thing is to not walk away with a "victimized" approach to your next employment, because no body will feel sorry for you when you're trying to make professional gains. Just close this chapter and move onto the next. If you're in YYC shoot me a pm, we'll grab a coffee, chat aviation, you can check out our facilities and planes and then I'll put you in touch with some CFI's if you're intending to instruct still. If my CP is around we can say hi to him as well and you can create future contacts for when you have the experience to work here.

[Rookie50]

Any idea?
Any contacts?
Any school hiring? Even as a dispatcher, rampy or anything to start with. Anywhere.

Sounds like your his b1tch, and you apparently like it, quite sad really.

If you don't even respect yourself any operator would be a fool to think you would, or even could, have any respect for the customers, aircraft, let alone the industry.

I can't think of anyone who would hire a pilot with such a huge lack of self respect.


Sorry dude.

Nice.

You know RS there is a human being behind this story. Maybe just a kid whose had to scratch and claw to get this far and hasn't encountered a lot of good advice or mentorship. Sounds like someone who wants to be honourable to his employer and is conflicted.

You ever think about any that? Probably not. There are actually individuals out there who don't just think of themselves. Must be hard to compute.

There is no value to being a total jerk on a thread witn a comment like that. None. Why are you here?

[Bede]

This one is easy. Quit and contact HRDC to get back pay. You can also do small claims court but from my knowledge HRDC will do the work for you. I hope you have kept track of your hours.

I'm guessing your employer isn't paying WCB, CPP, EI premiums and isn't deducting tax. It may be common but it is against the law.

You should get another job ASAP. You have enough time and your English is excellent, so you'll have lots of options. These guys are scumbags.

Send me a pm and I'll give you more info.

http://www.labour.gc.ca/eng/standards_e ... aint.shtml
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eforms/f ... -009)e.pdf

[stef]

Yeah what Bede said. Don't worry about being blacklisted. It won't happen if you're legit.