ATPL Form

[Apollo]

Hello AvCanadians!

I cannot seem to find the ATPL application form (26-0795E?) online. Does anyone here have a link they could provide me? Also, any tips on what I should bring with me when I drop off my stuff?

So far I will be bringing:

-Document Booklet
-Logbook
-Latest level-D PPC/IFR renewel report (hopefully, I'm trying to track down where I can get a copy)
-Record of SAMRA/SARON exams
-$100 fee

[C-GKNT]

I have a copy. PM me your e-mail and I'll send it to you.

Glenn

[Chaxterium]

Hey Apollo,

Just a heads up, some inspectors at TC will not accept an IFR renewal in a simulator. The regulations very clearly state that the last flight test had to be completed in an airplane.

421.34 (5) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)
(i) to perform both normal and emergency flight procedures and manoeuvres appropriate to the aeroplane in which the flight test is conducted; and
(ii) to execute all manoeuvres and procedures set forth in Division XIV for issue of a Group 1 instrument rating.

Now having said that, if your inspector doesn't care, then great. But just be aware. They are fully within their rights to deny your application if your last ride was in a sim.

[Apollo]

Hey Apollo,

Just a heads up, some inspectors at TC will not accept an IFR renewal in a simulator. The regulations very clearly state that the last flight test had to be completed in an airplane.

421.34 (5) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)
(i) to perform both normal and emergency flight procedures and manoeuvres appropriate to the aeroplane in which the flight test is conducted; and
(ii) to execute all manoeuvres and procedures set forth in Division XIV for issue of a Group 1 instrument rating.

Now having said that, if your inspector doesn't care, then great. But just be aware. They are fully within their rights to deny your application if your last ride was in a sim.

It seems that a Level D as certified by transport Canada would be acceptable. At least according to the licencing standards person I spoke with on the phone.

[Hayseed]

I was planning to submit my ATPL application in the next couple of weeks. My Group 1 IFR test was done as a renewal in a flight training device sim. If some inspectors at TC will not accept an IFR renewal in a simulator, then are there other offices where my application is more likely to be approved?

[C-GKNT]

I was planning to submit my ATPL application in the next couple of weeks. My Group 1 IFR test was done as a renewal in a flight training device sim. If some inspectors at TC will not accept an IFR renewal in a simulator, then are there other offices where my application is more likely to be approved?

I have heard Hamilton is likely your best bet but I don't really know. I'd prefer to do my IFR rides in a flight training device but I have a twin so I did my last renewal in it just so this wouldn't be an issue. When do your exams expire? Hopefully you have enough time so that if they reject it you can still redo your ride and resubmit your application again before they expire.

Glenn

[jspitfire]

I was planning to submit my ATPL application in the next couple of weeks. My Group 1 IFR test was done as a renewal in a flight training device sim. If some inspectors at TC will not accept an IFR renewal in a simulator, then are there other offices where my application is more likely to be approved?

I have heard Hamilton is likely your best bet but I don't really know. I'd prefer to do my IFR rides in a flight training device but I have a twin so I did my last renewal in it just so this wouldn't be an issue. When do your exams expire? Hopefully you have enough time so that if they reject it you can still redo your ride and resubmit your application again before they expire.

Glenn

I went over this extensively with a few people at TC last week. Here's a quote fom their email to me:

The standards for the ATPL-A skill test has always required to applicant to perform the skill test in a Group 1 aeroplane and Flight Crew Licensing- Headquarters (FCL –HQ) have accepted by policy a scripted PPC completed in a Level C or D simulator under PART VII of the CARs.

Good luck, but technically any inspector should reject your application.

[Nwtflier]

Isn't that quote saying they accept level c or d? Or am I misinterpreting?

[Viper32]

Just add my 2 cents here :

i did my atpl mid 2015 and used a level C simulator as my recent ifr renewal / ppc , i called the toronto tc office and ask to speak to someone in atpl aeroplane licencing issuing and they told me that even though the regs say aeroplane it will be accepted by transport canada if done in level c or d sim.

another thing that was added was the counting of my time as co pilot on BE20 which TC said that those hours will not count unless u have a supporting letter from you employer at the time that those hours on that (single pilot certified aircraft ) we required to be flown two crew - in my case they were required so those hours counted and i got the supporting letter emailed to me and printed it and included it in the application .

oh also if the dates you are trying to include on ur application say that it wont accept them then just fill in what u can of the form and use the same color pen to fill in the actual dates of your atpl exam dates and iatra that will also be acceptable.

In the end it was
Licences / Medical / Radio Licence copy
Exam results / copies
100$ fee
letter from employers support certain hours on aircraft
application form
logbook : certified by previous employers and current employer
i think that was it : the lady on the phone in tc office in toronto was extremely helpful

as for processing time i currently reside in norther ontario and i sent my atpl application pack off to toronto on the friday by following friday i had my logbook back in the mail and by that next monday atpl sticker in the mail delivered :
was pleased with the efficiency of the process and time overall

hope info helps

[jspitfire]

Isn't that quote saying they accept level c or d? Or am I misinterpreting?

Sorry, yes the original poster is fine. I was referring to Hayseed, who may have an issue.

[Hayseed]

Thank you for the helpful responses. I figured that since the purpose of a Group 1 IFR test is to obtain an instrument rating, and considering that I already have one, then I should have all I need already for an ATPL application. But yes, I believe I do need to climb into the Seminole now.

[C-GKNT]

Thank you for the helpful responses. I figured that since the purpose of a Group 1 IFR test is to obtain an instrument rating, and considering that I already have one, then I should have all I need already for an ATPL application. But yes, I believe I do need to climb into the Seminole now.

IMHO, the word "airplane" in the ATPL requirements are an artifact of when it was written. The "spirit" of the regulation is to show Group 1 IFR proficiency but at the time FTD's were not very advanced thus not even considered as an option. My guess is that at some point the regulation will be updated but certainly not in the near future.

Glenn

[Chaxterium]

IMHO, the word "airplane" in the ATPL requirements are an artifact of when it was written. The "spirit" of the regulation is to show Group 1 IFR proficiency but at the time FTD's were not very advanced thus not even considered as an option. My guess is that at some point the regulation will be updated but certainly not in the near future.

Glenn

I would tend to agree with you. I'm very happy to see that TC is actually using their heads on this one and accepting rides from a Level C or D sim. There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't.

Cheers,
Chax

[Hayseed]

Perhaps where the CARs say "...Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration..." the original intent was to differentiate from helicopter rather than to expressly disallow a multi-engined aeroplane sim. As in, you can't use a helicopter IFR flight test in order to get an aeroplane ATPL. So the CAR was written that way, and now we're required to adhere to the letter despite not being the original intent. Just a thought.

[jspitfire]

Perhaps where the CARs say "...Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration..." the original intent was to differentiate from helicopter rather than to expressly disallow a multi-engined aeroplane sim. As in, you can't use a helicopter IFR flight test in order to get an aeroplane ATPL. So the CAR was written that way, and now we're required to adhere to the letter despite not being the original intent. Just a thought.

You're really grasping here. CAR 421.34 lays out requirements for your ATPL-A for aeroplanes and CAR 421.35 is for ATPL-H for helicopters. Can't get much more cut and dry than that.

having a level C or D sim qualify makes sense, as these sims are realistic enough to qualify a pilot to jump right in to a revenue flight without any time on the actual airplane.

Do whatever you like, but it was very easy for me to pick up the phone and call TC to clarify the rules. They explained the rule clearly, cited ICAO standards they must follow, and told me there is no plan to change it.

[All DAY EVERY DAY]

If anyone has a copy of that form and could send it to me, it'll be highly appreciated. It's not available for download on the TC website.

Cheers

[Panama Jack]

Given that the only legal requirement to have an ATP is to be able to act as PIC in a 2-crew aeroplane (read type rating), and that very few type rating proficiency checks are carried out these days in an actual aircraft, it would be a logical disconnect for Transport to not accept your last proficiency check in a compliant simulator.

[C-GKNT]

26-0795E_1111-01_E_X.pdf

(830.45 KiB) Downloaded 395 times

I have been getting a PM every month or so from somebody looking for this form. Aside from the fact that it is a terrible form that doesn't actually match the ATPL requirements, I have no clue why TC no longer has it on their site but here it is.

(You're welcome )

Glenn

[arctic_slim]

I did my IFR Renewal in a sim. I called TC and they said yes it's fine in an approved sim. I called the school with that sim, and they said Yes it is approved for IFR renewal for ATPL. The key sentence was that you can renew an expired Group 1 in a sim, not do an initial IFR ride. This was in 2014

My ATPL was approved no problem....after they lost my log book...and after they lost my IFR renewal ride form... and I called them about 8 times over 3 months.

[Apollo]

For what its worth, TC in YVR had no issue that my last IFR ride was in a sim (Level D). The biggest issue they had was that the instrument time is not IFR, rather IMC. I still ended up with a fancy new ATPL sticker!