Airline pilots don't know how to fly

[ditar]

This reminds me of last summer. I got a chance to fly a caravan, the very plane that once felt like an extension of my own body and that I confidently flew in and out of all kinds of bush strips. After now being accustomed to flying an airliner, though, I couldn't get myself to put it down anywhere before the 1000 foot markers. Then later I went flying with a friend in his Cherokee, the first light airplane I've been in in an even longer time. I thought we were going to impact the ground 500 feet short of the runway. The sight picture was totally different from what I am now accustomed to. I'm sure it would all have come back to me within a few more hours, but unless one is switching back and forth on a regular basis, I suspect many airline pilots would have a few challenges going back to a 172.

[BTD]

Some skills gained in the bugsmashers will always be valuable. Not sure how many stalls most of us did through our training and possibly instructing. But it is instinct to push forward at slow speed or stall. This applies in airliners too.

Perhaps the air France fellows and the air Asia f.o. Would have benefited from 1500 hrs messing around in a 172.

[Rockie]

Lesson plan 1 - attitudes and movements - applies for every aircraft from an ultralight to a space shuttle. The problem with big sophisticated aircraft is that autoflight systems often work opposite to PAT - APT for the simple reason computers cannot possibly anticipate what you're going to do, and cannot do preemptive actions with the attitude or power. They can only react in response to the previous action commanded by the pilot or FMS. Unfortunately training programs do a poor job of accommodating - or even identifying - the aircraft handling contradictions in the autoflight system.

A simple thing like noting your attitude and power setting periodically during cruise would have saved many lives over the years on the occasions when the computers go stupid (take note pilotless aircraft advocates - computers are stupid). After a short period of time you'll notice it's always the same attitude and power settings for rough categories of flight like high/low and fast/slow. But simple handling stuff like that gets lost unfortunately in the clutter of sophistication.

[redlaser]

OK, OK, so some of you agree and some of you don't agree that Airline pilots can't fly , and most Airline pilots would agree that if they were asked to fly a small aircraft that they would probably end up damaging the aircraft, Judging from some of the comments I'm sure that some wannabe pilots who never saw the inside of a cockpit put in their two cents, So I say to these wannabe pilots to go and fly their Microsoft flight computer,which brings me to wonder just how many real pilots in the real world comment on this website, Not that there is anything wrong in doing so.

[Meatservo]

OK, OK, so some of you agree and some of you don't agree that Airline pilots can't fly , and most Airline pilots would agree that if they were asked to fly a small aircraft that they would probably end up damaging the aircraft.

No! I don't think anyone agreed with you, and NO airline pilot agreed that if they were asked to fly a small plane they would damage it. What is the matter with you?

[Rockie]

OK, OK, so some of you agree and some of you don't agree that Airline pilots can't fly

The only people who would make an absurd blanket statement that "airline pilots" can't fly have never done that job, don't know what they're talking about yet inexplicably harbour an irrational prejudice against them. Ego I guess...

In every human endeavor there are people who are stellar at what they do and some that aren't. Do you condemn all plumbers because one wrecked your pipes?

[goingnowherefast]

What's being said is that an airline pilot, used to a large multi-engine aircraft, is not current to fly a small single engine aircraft. A little instruction is required to get a multi-engine land pilot current on a single engine land aeroplane. A pilot will need some training when transitioning to an aircraft in which they have no recent relevant experience.

The CARs seem to agree. Go look at CAR 401.02(2) for the Recency Requirements.

The Commercial CARs go even further with the Flight Crew Member Qualifications, 703.88, 704.108 or 705.106

Whether that individual has allowed the use of automation to degrade their stick and rudder skills is irrelevant to their job. Many Cirrus pilots, with their fancy avionics suffer from the same problem, and they're not airline pilots. Even a 172 with a good autopilot can cause stick and rudder skills to degrade

[Chris M]

For the same reason, no matter how good you are at flying your Cessna, I'm not going to lend you my radio-controlled model aeroplane.

But what if my Cessna IS a radio-control plane?

[Rockie]

Hah, I see you left yourself some room to eat under the right wing.

[Chris M]

Bah, that's what the couch is for.

When the wife isn't around...

[Mach7]

@redlaser

You are the very reason why I try to stay away from these forums....

It makes my blood boil listening to green horns like yourself type out there perception of aviation and Airline Pilots from the VAST experience you must have, (that is sarcasm if you didn't get that).

Most of these posters here have more time and experience at the top of a loop than you have in your entire career.

How do I know this?, because no Pilot of experience would have posted this thread to begin with

You want to see how Airline Pilots can fly? Why don't you come with me one day landing in Torbay (CYYT) with winds gusting to 50 knots to an approach to minimums on a contaminated runway. Approaches like this have to be hand flown as the autopilot cannot remain connected.

Once we get to the gate and you finish cleaning your diaper, then maybe you will have a better perspective and respect of what an experienced Airline Pilot brings to the table.

[Rockie]

Bah, that's what the couch is for.

When the wife isn't around...

Ha Ha. I used to know a guy who had his Porche engine sitting on the dining table to work on it. He ate on the couch too...and was single.

[Meatservo]

For the same reason, no matter how good you are at flying your Cessna, I'm not going to lend you my radio-controlled model aeroplane.

But what if my Cessna IS a radio-control plane?

Wow, that's AWESOME! How big is it? The flaps even have the corrugated ribs! Mrs. Meatservo would never let me build a model on the table. I'm working on a traditional stick-and-tissue "park flyer" right now but it's way smaller than that.

Back to the original topic: RedLaser is clearly either a trouble-maker, which I think is funny, or he (or she) is an instructor with fewer than 1500 hours, who dreams of making duck-faces in the mirror with a uniform and epaulettes on and taking selfies, who is angry that it's taking so long to get the minimum experience required for an ATPL, because he thinks he's ready for it.

He wants the "status" so bad, he's taken to insulting people who have earned it, and he wishes it were easier! The irony is, when an achievement is "dumbed-down" enough so that impatient, undedicated people can earn it, it no longer means anything! People like Redlaser want to degrade our profession down to their level, so they can claim the status that was earned by their superiors!


It's as if fat, lazy people wanted to petition the army to make being fat&lazy an admission standard, so they can get into the army-and stop being thought of as fat&lazy!!

I have nothing but contempt for people like Redlaser. Unfortunately, people like Redlaser are the reason that low-time primary flight instructors have so much difficulty getting any respect in the real world.

[MUSKEG]

Redlaser just felt insecure. Just looking for someway to compare dick size. I would bet he's from the " I want it right now" generation.

[B208]

Redlaser just felt insecure. Just looking for someway to compare dick size. I would bet he's from the " I want it right now" generation.

Nah...he's just throwing sticks in the spokes to hear them break.....

[Chris M]

Wow, that's AWESOME! How big is it? The flaps even have the corrugated ribs! Mrs. Meatservo would never let me build a model on the table. I'm working on a traditional stick-and-tissue "park flyer" right now but it's way smaller than that.

Thanks! I'm not normally one to start thread drift, but I don't feel so bad about this one. So...

It's a 95" span Hangar 9 182 using a Saito 220 four stroke glow engine with an 18 inch carbon fiber prop. This model is an ARF (almost-ready-to-fly) which means it's mostly prebuilt but I've added quite a few custom touches.

simple flap hinges will be replaced with functional Fowler tracks:



The wonders of technology. I was able to use a picture of a 182 G1000 panel to generate a 3D model, which in turn was made into reality with a 3D printer. There will be a full cabin eventually, and if possible the screens will be backlit with overlays to look realistic.



I like to fly my models off water, so a set of floats will be built for it as well. And since I don't like being limited, they will be amphibs. I haven't started work on the floats themselves yet, but the prototype main gear have been 3D printed and are ready to be tested out. Here where the design is right now:



The mains in the down position:



And raised:



The design is pulled from the full scale Aerocet 3400's. The shock is from an RC monster truck with a super strong spring added and the actuator is pneumatic and powered by a 100 PSI cylinder that will live in the floats.

But for all the crazy details and time that go into a model like this I still love the small ones like yours. Being able to just toss it in the back seat and go flying in a nearby field any time you feel like it is great.

[springlocked]

they can't even do a proper landing

-

it amuses me why a lot of people/pilots judge someone's skills by the landings WTF is that all about jeeezus - I'm thinking there is a little more to it than that but I guess when you spend most of your time in a circuit your thinking skills deteriorate or your brain does too many left turns

[goingnowherefast]

Take any average joe airline pilot. Go over speeds, configurations, power settings, and I bet he will hand fly an ILS in a 172 better than Redlaser, on his first try.


Also, that's a really nice RC plane. I'm impressed!

[Meatservo]

Wow, that's AWESOME! How big is it? The flaps even have the corrugated ribs! Mrs. Meatservo would never let me build a model on the table. I'm working on a traditional stick-and-tissue "park flyer" right now but it's way smaller than that.

Thanks! I'm not normally one to start thread drift, but I don't feel so bad about this one. So...

It's a 95" span Hangar 9 182 using a Saito 220 four stroke glow engine with an 18 inch carbon fiber prop. This model is an ARF (almost-ready-to-fly) which means it's mostly prebuilt but I've added quite a few custom touches.

simple flap hinges will be replaced with functional Fowler tracks:



The wonders of technology. I was able to use a picture of a 182 G1000 panel to generate a 3D model, which in turn was made into reality with a 3D printer. There will be a full cabin eventually, and if possible the screens will be backlit with overlays to look realistic.



I like to fly my models off water, so a set of floats will be built for it as well. And since I don't like being limited, they will be amphibs. I haven't started work on the floats themselves yet, but the prototype main gear have been 3D printed and are ready to be tested out. Here where the design is right now:



The mains in the down position:



And raised:



The design is pulled from the full scale Aerocet 3400's. The shock is from an RC monster truck with a super strong spring added and the actuator is pneumatic and powered by a 100 PSI cylinder that will live in the floats.

But for all the crazy details and time that go into a model like this I still love the small ones like yours. Being able to just toss it in the back seat and go flying in a nearby field any time you feel like it is great.

That is stunning. I like to build my own kits generally, but that one you've got is amazing. Plus, you're doing so much work on it, it doesn't really qualify as "ARF" at this point anyway. Right now I am laminating wingtip bows for mine, which is proving to be a pretty advanced technique. I snap three for every one that turns out OK. I'm really not enjoying it at the moment.

I would love it if you posted a few pictures of that machine once the floats are on and she's ready to go. I don't think you need to worry about "thread drift" in this stupid thread.

[Rockie]

Best thread drift ever IMHO. You sir are a craftsman.