2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired

[Old fella]

so you would likely be charged if you flew when over the limit for driving in Canada, even if it's longer than 8 hours.

Not likely: you will absolutely be charged under the Criminal Code of Canada, article 253:

Operation while impaired

253 (1) Every one commits an offence who operates a motor vehicle or vessel or operates or assists in the operation of an aircraft or of railway equipment or has the care or control of a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment, whether it is in motion or not,

(a) while the person’s ability to operate the vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment is impaired by alcohol or a drug; or

(b) having consumed alcohol in such a quantity that the concentration in the person’s blood exceeds eighty milligrams of alcohol in one hundred millilitres of blood.

Yes, correct. But it HAS to be proven in a Court of Law.

[AuxBatOn]

Yes, correct. But it HAS to be proven in a Court of Law.

I did say charged, not convicted.

[yycflyguy]

Not likely: you will absolutely be charged under the Criminal Code of Canada, article 253:

Quote:
Operation while impaired

253 (1) Every one commits an offence who operates a motor vehicle or vessel or operates or assists in the operation of an aircraft or of railway equipment or has the care or control of a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment, whether it is in motion or not,

(a) while the person’s ability to operate the vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment is impaired by alcohol or a drug; or

(b) having consumed alcohol in such a quantity that the concentration in the person’s blood exceeds eighty milligrams of alcohol in one hundred millilitres of blood.

This falls under UK jurisdiction so quoting Canadian Law is pointless. The blood sample limit is 20mg of alcohol/100ml limit for the UK. 4 times more stringent than Canada. The Breathalyzer limit to detain you is 9mg/100ml or 0.009%. You might not even know you were "impaired".

[AuxBatOn]

I was talking about Canada for reference only. Not for this specific case. It is not pointless, it is education in relation to a case that has affected pilots in Canada and will in the future.

[sstocker31]

I hope these guys get what they deserve.....these assholes showing up with any signs of alcohol give us all a bad name...throw um under the bus!!!

[Old fella]

Yes, correct. But it HAS to be proven in a Court of Law.

I did say charged, not convicted.

And I said "yes, correct". I would suggest AT is rather a tad cross with these two individuals for the unwanted publicity on bottle to throttle issue and as well, the unnecessary cost of looking after a plane load of disgruntled passengers while everything was being sorted out.

[cpt sweet'njuicy]

I cant believe pilots would fly drunk. What a shocker. When has that happened before. Lets see..............

[ajet32]

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. A fundamental principle of our law and the British as well since that's where ours come from. I have no inside information but this would not be the first time a crew or individual pilot was accused by airport security or the cabin crew only to be completely exonerated. I am hopeful that will be the case here.

[photofly]

This goes a little way beyond mere cabin crew tittle-tattle. The flight crew was arrested, the police upon investigation found there was sufficient evidence to lay charges, and the sheriff felt the evidence credible enough and charges serious enough to deny bail. The pilots are now in a Scottish prison awaiting trial. That doesn't happen in the UK merely on the basis of an idle accusation.

How many people would expect to escape a DUI under the same circumstances?

Even if for some reason they're acquitted, it seems fairly straightforward to me that the pilots have a plain duty to turn up for a flight stone cold sober and in such a way that there is no doubt or concern about it; if they have to start finding reasons why they shouldn't be punished because they weren't really impaired or were only a little bit tipsy ... they still screwed up big time and deserve the sack.

This is not difficult, nuanced, or subtle.

[niss]

I've got nothing to contribute. I just really wanted to see my avatar in this thread.

[pelmet]

Any truth to this comment on another forum....

"I am hearing from an EZ based Captain that was on stand at the time of the incident, that the First Officer was wearing some kind of a cape, possibly what could have drawn attention to them in the first instance."

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5817 ... cohol.html

['97 Tercel]

What, you don't wear a cape to work sometimes?

[pelmet]

What, you don't wear a cape to work sometimes?

Apparently the story has been confirmed with video evidence as a back-up as recorded by an F/A. Take a look as the crew passed through security with the captain being asked to show his security pass....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzEQmF6khAM

[valleyboy]

The total irony about this issue is that millions of dollars are spent on drinking and driving but it's still legal to do so. The legislators need to grow a set and change the laws to zero tolerance. It seems that we are incapable of doing it ourselves. This "macho" pilot image is still alive and well in Canada. Pilots are no different from any other profession. There is substance abuse everywhere. It seems in aviation some feel it's a required image to be an ace macool. I know of examples where uniforms were worn to a bar, off duty (on more than one occasion) with the thought that uniforms work better than gin in the pantie remover department. Damn, the road to maturity is a long one. Some never seem to achieve it.

[KAG]

It's never cool to where your uniform to the bar, and at some jobs it'll get you fired.

This does bring up a good conversation about drinking (not to excess) on a layover, and are you really legal to fly? You may feel fine, have your 12 hours, but is it really out of your system. Gives one pause about having that last bevie before cutoff.

[BTD]

What, you don't wear a cape to work sometimes?

Apparently the story has been confirmed with video evidence as a back-up as recorded by an F/A. Take a look as the crew passed through security with the captain being asked to show his security pass....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzEQmF6khAM

Dammit. I've been had!

[gasbag1]

The simple truth to flying in and out of the UK, any drinking on the layover must be kept to a minimum. The limits for crew members are very low. One could argue the limit is too low however the rules are clear and any pilot flying into any country should be aware of breaking the regulations could land you in prison.

And it doesn't matter if an F/A turned them in or a Security Officer at a checkpoint. Once the police are informed of a suspected impairment they will arrive,even to the flight deck. If you fail the breathalyzer, off to the police station. These two obviously failed the follow up tests.

These two are not the first and will not be the last. Some pilots think rules don't apply to them individually, and get away with showing up impaired after a "fun" layover. Sooner or later......

[CpnCrunch]

The simple truth to flying in and out of the UK, any drinking on the layover must be kept to a minimum. The limits for crew members are very low. One could argue the limit is too low however the rules are clear and any pilot flying into any country should be aware of breaking the regulations could land you in prison.

And it doesn't matter if an F/A turned them in or a Security Officer at a checkpoint. Once the police are informed of a suspected impairment they will arrive,even to the flight deck. If you fail the breathalyzer, off to the police station. These two obviously failed the follow up tests.

These two are not the first and will not be the last. Some pilots think rules don't apply to them individually, and get away with showing up impaired after a "fun" layover. Sooner or later......

I'm not so sure that the low limits had anything to do with it. The FAs presumably noticed weird behaviour and/or alcohol on the pilots' breath. It's not clear what exactly they noticed, but presumably something more than the effect you'd get after drinking a glass of wine with your lunch.

[SheriffPatGarrett]

FFS. Just when people finally forget about that drug smuggler Capt.

He is still a big hero out east and giving "safety" conferences everywhere...and people talk of zero tolerance?
Tolerance of what? Could be worse...think of the big union buster that made 100 of millions
supplying the Lalaland hoi polloi with cocaine...Every time you got a jumpseat ride, the cappie made sure
your name was not on the shit list alongside this guy!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_Lacy

You cant pay me enough money to fly on these clowns' airplanes!

[bobcaygeon]

Yes, correct. But it HAS to be proven in a Court of Law.

I did say charged, not convicted.

And I said "yes, correct". I would suggest AT is rather a tad cross with these two individuals for the unwanted publicity on bottle to throttle issue and as well, the unnecessary cost of looking after a plane load of disgruntled passengers while everything was being sorted out.

Should these guys get fired anyway due the harm they've caused the company image? It's a major criminal charge

Hydro One fired the employee who yelled FHRITP on live TV. He was off duty and in plain clothes.

Jian Gomeshi was fired long before he went to court, where he was found not guilty on all counts.

Maybe they are innocent but it doesn't help maintain a "professional" image.