Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

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Braaaap
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#51 Post by Braaaap » Mon May 01, 2017 6:48 pm

GTAirways is also operating chartered flight out of Thunder Bay for Kasper Aviation which has taken a sort of New Leaf approach to air ops. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... -1.4053127
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#52 Post by marakii » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:59 am

pdw wrote:
marakii wrote:any updates on their Niagara run and in general speaking? Do they still have the two daily roundtrips to YSN and back and how is it doing?
It's doing great for Niagarans. Another couple of flights were added today / May 1st 2017. Now we also have an 11am flight to Cytz and return at 1pm to Niagara in addition to the other "two daily roundtrips" (the '8am return 10am' and '5pm return 6pm').
How are they doing ? Still in business? Did they add a gippsaero ga8 as well?
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#53 Post by pdw » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:24 am

marakii wrote: gippsaero
That's the word I was looking for ... nice plane
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#54 Post by CL-Skadoo! » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:50 am

pdw wrote:
marakii wrote:any updates on their Niagara run and in general speaking? Do they still have the two daily roundtrips to YSN and back and how is it doing?
It's doing great for Niagarans. Another couple of flights were added today / May 1st 2017. Now we also have an 11am flight to Cytz and return at 1pm to Niagara in addition to the other "two daily roundtrips" (the '8am return 10am' and '5pm return 6pm').
How many times have you flown on it?
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Niagara to Toronto in 15 minutes

#55 Post by pdw » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:16 pm

I had the chance to have a closer look at it, but not fly. FLY GTA uses that one as backup for this route on occasion, but I've heard mostly for sightseeing/flights north of the lake. I've gone twice on a twin .. "in 15 minutes".
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Re: Niagara to Toronto in 15 minutes

#56 Post by CL-Skadoo! » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:08 pm

pdw wrote:I had the chance to have a closer look at it, but not fly. FLY GTA uses that one as backup for this route on occasion, but I've heard mostly for sightseeing/flights north of the lake. I've gone twice on a twin .. "in 15 minutes".
Interesting.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#57 Post by pdw » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:45 am

There's a few things interesting about a new business like this. Often you can see first time passengers coming in from Toronto finding it a surprise how few people there are here at Niagara when they come out of the terminal and expect the cab already waiting.

No-one ever gets stranded for very long though, if at all, as there's always some way to get a quick ride into town .. esp by countless aircraft enthusiasts that come and go on a fairly regular basis (which probably is the case at a lot of airports in Canada).

Another thing that I found interesting, is even with the signage at the highway and lots of advertising for this startup, there's a lot of locals totally clued out there's a new flying service in town that's affordable. Not sure how one could change that.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#58 Post by photofly » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:39 pm

Why hasn't a local cab company cottoned on to the arrival times to have some cabs waiting? They do have taxis, even in Niagara, don't they?
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Niagara to Toronto in 15 minutes

#59 Post by pdw » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:08 am

I agree .. no-one should wait for ground transportation when there's a big deal about the "15 minutes".

Maybe that is an issue at other airports too, the ones that are attempting to cater to an airline for the first time. Olde town of Niagara (NOTL Town Center), the Falls, and the center of St Catherines are all 12-14 min away from the terminal. There's many cabs around, just not always close enough.

Prompt ground transportation every time (intant actually) is what the passengers must have available if trying to save time and are using the service for that reason. It's a good question if there's a way to syncronize cabs to give this business the best chance to grow, if it's success hinges on good ground service.
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Last edited by pdw on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Niagara to Toronto in 15 minutes

#60 Post by marakii » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:25 am

pdw wrote:I agree .. no-one should wait for ground transportation when there's a big deal about the "15 minutes".

Maybe that is an issue at other airports too, the ones that are attempting to cater to an airline for the first time. Olde town of Niagara (NOTL Town Center), the Falls, and the center of St Catherines are all 12-14 min away from the terminal.

Prompt ground transportation every time is what the passengers are hoping for if trying to save time. It's a good question if the cab industry can syncronize to give this business a chance to grow ... to keep them happy and coming back.

So how many passengers on average are they flying?.anybody know? And they do the run 4 times a day?
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Niagara to Toronto in 15 minutes

#61 Post by pdw » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:24 pm

Scheduled for 3, each way; a one year committment to our airport was mentioned at the last AGM. There are on demand charters in between these schedules, which would be reliable revenue in combination with the pledged flight times, so that is over and above the 6 legs at the present time. That year is up in September, so then we can get the official update how ridership is evolving on that basis.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#62 Post by DanJ » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:11 pm

The London Free Press is reporting this airline is having a press conference on Tuesday to announce expanded service to up to 3 more cities, London being one.

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/06/londo ... nto-island
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#63 Post by GyvAir » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Looks like they have Kasper's old Airvan, plus one more on their fleet now. Hopefully that's an indicator of a successful plan on thier part.

Personally, though, I won't be booking a flight with them unless they start featuring the CN tower in more of their gallery photos.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#64 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:44 pm

DanJ wrote:The London Free Press is reporting this airline is having a press conference on Tuesday to announce expanded service to up to 3 more cities, London being one.

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/06/londo ... nto-island
Cool. Good for them.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#65 Post by DanJ » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:20 pm

Looks like Waterloo and Barrie in November, London in December.

http://www.flygta.com/from-the-press/
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#66 Post by xysn » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:48 am

Honestly I am baffled that this is still around but I'm glad it is!

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/2017/1 ... hancements
<snip>
“Our team is committed to a large-scale project with Niagara District Airport,” Nowrouzi said during a media conference Tuesday at Billy Bishop Airport in downtown Toronto.

That project includes a 3,600-square-metre maintenance hangar to be constructed next year, including a luxury terminal featuring “crew rest areas, planning areas, and everything that goes along with it,” he said.

“It will be very high-end luxury.”

When that initial facility is completed, Nowrouzi said the company hopes to begin construction of a second large hangar at the airport, part of a 50-year lease the commuter airline signed with the airport commission earlier this year.

The new facilities will help support additional services offered by the airline that currently carries up to eight passengers at a time between Niagara District and Billy Bishop airports — at a cost of $99 per one-way trip, tax included.

On Nov. 6, scheduled commuter flight services will be offered to Region of Waterloo International Airport, as well as Lake Simcoe Regional Airport in Barrie.

Flights between Toronto and those destinations are expected to take less than 20 minutes, and cost $129 each, tax included.

And before the end of the year, the company plans to offer scheduled service to London, Ont., International Airport as well.

Nowrouzi said the airline is investing in new aircraft to support the increased services, with plans to buy several planes to complement its existing fleet of eight passenger planes.

Although he described it as a substantial investment, Nowrouzi wouldn’t say how much his company plans to spend on the project.

But he is confident the numbers will add up, judging by the success his company has seen in Niagara.

Nowrouzi said demand quickly grew for the commuter flights his company began offering in September 2016, and the airline responded by doubling the flights between Niagara and Toronto.

And despite the $99 price tag, he said the commuter flights “make sense” once the cost of fuel and parking is added up, along with the time spent driving along the highways.

“A lot of our flights are full these days. It’s great,” Nowrouzi said.
<snip>
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#67 Post by jschnurr » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:20 am

I too am surprised they're still around, but this wouldn't be the first airline that started with humble beginnings.
“It will be very high-end luxury.”
Nothing says "very high-end luxury" like the mighty PA31!
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#68 Post by rigpiggy » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:42 pm

pdw wrote:Can you get more info on the lake crash ? The tragedy was a from a fuel issue ... and it hurt Niagara Airport business; locals were without a service. A good host airport/atmosphere is what's required to make it work.
http://www.aviation-safety.net/database ... 19870112-0

It was an air problem, not a fuel problem.

Too much air was in the tanks. Do not trust the guages on a cessna, or an islander, use the stick...

The passenger survived because he had more body fat, the wreck ended up at upper valley in chilliwack. The passenger is now in yyj.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#69 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:17 pm

A common mistake I do see other businesses doing, is after initial success, expanding far too fast. I really hope this isn't the case with these guys. Not a lot of margin at 99 bucks a flight.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#70 Post by pdw » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:19 pm

They've kept up the route for over a year now, so IMO if they want to they can sell it ... very easily. The route to Niagara (as a sched) didn't exist before. The other destinations may or may not have other competetors; they could just as well be an add-on, for the purpose of taking the piggy to market. Ever thought of that ?
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#71 Post by rookiepilot » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:02 pm

pdw wrote:They've kept up the route for over a year now, so IMO if they want to they can sell it ... very easily. ?
Not to someone like me, they wouldn't. No bid. No real money in it. Future in question with train service coming to Niagara.

But I wish them well.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#72 Post by pdw » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:33 pm

The G-train will be an hour and a half from Niagara to Toronto; ... longer than by car on good days.

Also, the Niagara to/from Barrie flights are now enabled, since the Niagara to Toronto return is running 4 times a day (which makes that connection possible, and helps overall ridership). The GO via Union to Barrie is longer than car or bus.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#73 Post by golden hawk » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:44 pm

jschnurr wrote:Nothing says "very high-end luxury" like the mighty PA31!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#74 Post by pdw » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:15 pm

It seems to 'mark the spot' very well, .. ie we can see/hear them fly overhead every other hour; very sharp looking and well maintained.

What else could have possibly been used to improve on that sort of a niche (ie: as an upgrade) .. for these short flight-times, esp if mostly downtime during the startup months? They are going direct, over water, and with pax ... so still must be a twin. Fuel consumption as a direct expense is basically a meaningless expense (very short runs and fairly cheap) compared to if having the extreme overhead of ANYTHING brand new. The interest clock will still away when parked in-between short hops, with pilots on standby in the pilot's lounge ..

EDIT (re: comments below):
Regarding the cost per hour:
I'm sure"$600" must be tops, no? .. if negotiating costs well, without mistakes? Maybe 2 hours engine time daily, just for eight 12-15min flight-legs back and forth from Niagara. In the hangar overnight ensures easy start each time, for minimum warmup / time losses.
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Re: Toronto to Niagara in 15 minutes

#75 Post by rookiepilot » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:21 pm

What does it cost, all in, to run a PA 31 per hour, pilots, fuel, insurance, the works? I'm guessing 6-800 per hour.

That close?
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