Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

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Old Dog Flying
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Old Dog Flying »

Ok guys let's settle this matter once and for all

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MrWings
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by MrWings »

AuxBatOn wrote: This isn't about dogfight. This is about the threat we will likely face (like it was the case in the 40s).

Today's most potent threats are SAMs. The only capable aircraft that I know of that can even consider operating in today's SAM threats are the F-22s and the F-35s. Even what we consider third world countries have very capable surface-to-air threat (S-300/400) that I would never want to be faced again in my F-18.
OK, good point.

SAM are essentially a not a domestic airspace concern, right? If there are SAMs on Canadian soil then there are much bigger things going on and our handful of any kind of aircraft won't be around for long.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by AuxBatOn »

I wasn't aware that we were employing fighters over Canadian soil exclusively.
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Jet Jockey
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Jet Jockey »

Never mind the Super Hornet or that crappy F35... Let us think big and go for the F22.

Now that Trump is in, maybe he would be willing to sell it to us Canucks at a discounted price.
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2R
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by 2R »

If we are serious about saving NATO by increasing spending to 2 percent of GDP ,then there should be enough money for more Super Hornets , more F-35's and some of the "NEW" F-15's . And dare I say it some BOATS as well .

http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing- ... ractor-may
Just the thing for those who feel the need for speed :)
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all_ramped_up
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by all_ramped_up »

Still have no idea why everyone has a hard-on for the Super Hornet... It's just a 1975-era aircraft with some lipstick.

For the amount of time that Canada will stretch the use of them out, we'll still be well behind in capability compared to everyone else flying the Rafale, Gripen, Typhoon and the even the bloody Flanker.

Why people keep on insisting we invest in an old platform to shuffle us into 2067 (Let's be honest, whatever we buy next is going to be dragged along for 50 years like the Sea King and Tutor until an unmanned aircraft is developed.) is beyond me. We need to buy something that is a competent multi-role platform and not a fat pig of a money pit like the F-35.
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frosti
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by frosti »

all_ramped_up wrote:Still have no idea why everyone has a hard-on for the Super Hornet... It's just a 1975-era aircraft with some lipstick.
Two words. Dual Engine. People are so completely delusional regarding this they can't see the big picture.
2R wrote:If we are serious about saving NATO by increasing spending to 2 percent of GDP ,then there should be enough money for more Super Hornets , more F-35's and some of the "NEW" F-15's . And dare I say it some BOATS as well .

http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing- ... ractor-may
Just the thing for those who feel the need for speed :)
I've always thought the F-15 would be a much better fit, Air Force fighter for our Air Force. We don't need another f***ing Navy carrier jet. The F-15 is a massive flying fuel tank and bomber that can clean up the sky as well. Plus it has a simple landing gear system that doesn't require hundreds of hours of maintenance due to the complexity.
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tailgunner
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by tailgunner »

Rockie,
I'm sure someone as well read as yourself, realizes that the only model of F15 they currently build is the E model. The Strike Eagle is of course a TWO crew aircraft. So unless you want to double the manning in the RCAF , with double the crewing costs, that is a big NO GO
The only fighters that meets your requirements (Rockies) are the French Rafaels and the Eurofighter .
The Rafael requires a complete repurchase of French armaments, as the Rafael is lagging in integration with NATO standard arms. The Eurofighter still only has plans for an electric Radar. It also is lagging in development
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Rockie »

I don't see anything wrong with a 2nd crew member. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and the old "I'd rather have 200 pounds of gas" joke really is just a joke. Cost of the additional body is a non-factor.

The other choices you mention are all capable aircraft equipped with an essential item the F-35 lacks. Plus the way F-35 advocates talk an Air Force will be inneffective if they don't get that airplane, and that is simply not the case.
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teacher
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by teacher »

Sounds like another Politcally charged procurement disaster in the works and nobody is allowed to talk about it. Echoes of the Sea King replacement, sub purchase, Griffin purchase and countless other equipment purchases chosen for politics rather than military requirements.

http://www.battlefordsnow.com/article/5 ... ghter-jets
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Old fella »

I believe JT is being disingenuous about this whole issue. He made an election promise not to buy the F-35 in the public forum aka election campaign. Well then, get on with it as you are now the governing party with a majority mandate. No matter what fighter, there will be counter arguments for and against by all associated, buy the effing SH if you don't want the F-35 and be done with it.
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Rockie
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Rockie »

Old fella wrote:I believe JT is being disingenuous about this whole issue. He made an election promise not to buy the F-35 in the public forum aka election campaign. Well then, get on with it as you are now the governing party with a majority mandate. No matter what fighter, there will be counter arguments for and against by all associated, buy the effing SH if you don't want the F-35 and be done with it.
Once again you nailed it.

While I applaud the purchase of 18 SH's because it will give the RCAF some much needed capability, kicking the can another 5 years down the road for a competition insults the intelligence of Canadians. A real competition - one that incorporates all factors without bias including the number of engines - is not that hard to do. Just get on with it and buy whichever jet is the best one for this particular country. Even if it's the F-35.
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Mick G
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Mick G »

tailgunner wrote:Rockie,
The only fighters that meets your requirements (Rockies) are the French Rafaels and the Eurofighter
Along with the Rafael and EF, don't forget about the Gripen.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by AuxBatOn »

The single-engined Grippen that has the same motor as our current Hornet?
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Old fella »

Rockie wrote:
Old fella wrote:I believe JT is being disingenuous about this whole issue. He made an election promise not to buy the F-35 in the public forum aka election campaign. Well then, get on with it as you are now the governing party with a majority mandate. No matter what fighter, there will be counter arguments for and against by all associated, buy the effing SH if you don't want the F-35 and be done with it.
Once again you nailed it.

While I applaud the purchase of 18 SH's because it will give the RCAF some much needed capability, kicking the can another 5 years down the road for a competition insults the intelligence of Canadians. A real competition - one that incorporates all factors without bias including the number of engines - is not that hard to do. Just get on with it and buy whichever jet is the best one for this particular country. Even if it's the F-35.
Being non -partisan I find politics to be abstract to say the least. Start the competition now, weigh in with all experts from all disciplines, select your winner. If it determined the F-35 is best option then buy it. Tell the public after this rigorous selection process this is what we are gonna do and do it. Governments are not lost because of military procurement issues aka Jean Cretien and the chopper issue.
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teacher
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by teacher »

Old fella wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Old fella wrote:I believe JT is being disingenuous about this whole issue. He made an election promise not to buy the F-35 in the public forum aka election campaign. Well then, get on with it as you are now the governing party with a majority mandate. No matter what fighter, there will be counter arguments for and against by all associated, buy the effing SH if you don't want the F-35 and be done with it.
Once again you nailed it.

While I applaud the purchase of 18 SH's because it will give the RCAF some much needed capability, kicking the can another 5 years down the road for a competition insults the intelligence of Canadians. A real competition - one that incorporates all factors without bias including the number of engines - is not that hard to do. Just get on with it and buy whichever jet is the best one for this particular country. Even if it's the F-35.
Being non -partisan I find politics to be abstract to say the least. Start the competition now, weigh in with all experts from all disciplines, select your winner. If it determined the F-35 is best option then buy it. Tell the public after this rigorous selection process this is what we are gonna do and do it. Governments are not lost because of military procurement issues aka Jean Cretien and the chopper issue.
The research WAS done. The F-35 was chosen as the best fighter jet for our country to operate for the next 40 years. Politics and spin kicked in and now the process is being restarted. For what? To redo a decades worth of research?

How much do you wanna bet that with the SH purchase less legacy hornets are upgraded leaving the total useable aircraft the same or less than the current inventory.

As for the single vs multi engine argument you all need to compare current and appropriate data. You are comparing engines designed 40 years ago to engines designed TODAY! 40 years ago you still needed 4 engines to cross the ocean. Now we do it with 2. Last I heard F-16s and Grippins are not falling out of the sky and they have much older technology powering them.

As for the Air Force looks like the brass is not interested in playing ball with this political game:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-s ... -1.3177134

They made their recommendations years ago and seem happy with the choice than and now.
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by frosti »

teacher wrote:http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-s ... -1.3177134
Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan's office says Hood's comments don't address a "capability gap" that has been created from many CF-18s being out of service on any given day because of maintenance issues.
With all due respect to Minister Sajjan, he has no idea what he is talking about. Other than a few shortages of parts in depots, keeping our CF-18s serviceable is not an issue. Our biggest issue currently is storage of parts - they are not in Cold Lake or Bagotville. 80% of the parts are sent to and stored in depot at Mirabel adding days to maintenance. It makes too much sense to store CF18 parts at their base locations. Need to keep those unions happy. :roll:
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frosti
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by frosti »

Looks like Lt-Gen. Hood has other thoughts...

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/ ... out-cf-18s

We must be the laughing stock of NATO.
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by Rockie »

Teacher

The Conservatives had a hardon for the F-35 for some reason and it definitely was not chosen by a competition. Peter MacKay's ridiculous promise that the F-35's engine will never quit shows how much thought went into that particular criteria.
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teacher
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Re: Canadian Govt buys 18 Super Hornets

Post by teacher »

Rockie wrote:Teacher

The Conservatives had a hardon for the F-35 for some reason and it definitely was not chosen by a competition. Peter MacKay's ridiculous promise that the F-35's engine will never quit shows how much thought went into that particular criteria.
Maybe because after years of research the military decided that it was the best aircraft to take us into the next several decades?
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