float block time in the GTA?

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Andrew24
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float block time in the GTA?

Post by Andrew24 »

does anyone know of anyone or any company that offers block time on floats? im float rated just looking for a cheaper way to build hours. i am well aware of the insurance hassle facing floatplane owners leasing out their aircraft. Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated
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ctmorawetz
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by ctmorawetz »

Likely the only way you get any time on a float plane without a CPL is to buy a share of a float plane. I don't know of anyone that offers block time on floats unless you rent from one of the float flight schools in Southern Ontario.
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PilotDAR
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by PilotDAR »

Give Jeff a call at Lake Country Airways in Orillia, he's an innovative thinker with a few floatplanes....
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Andrew24
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by Andrew24 »

PilotDAR wrote:Give Jeff a call at Lake Country Airways in Orillia, he's an innovative thinker with a few floatplanes....
ive actually got all my float time with lake country, they require a check out for every lake you want to go into kind of a pain. looking like they're my only option living in southern onterrible haha
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Andrew24
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by Andrew24 »

ctmorawetz wrote:Likely the only way you get any time on a float plane without a CPL is to buy a share of a float plane. I don't know of anyone that offers block time on floats unless you rent from one of the float flight schools in Southern Ontario.
Had that thought in the back of my mind as well. Share on a float plane is out of the question unfortunately, i would love to though
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by PilotDAR »

they require a check out for every lake you want to go into kind of a pain.
Not as much of a pain as we having to fly into a lot of those lakes to remove a plane whose new pilot did not have the experience to get in and out safely. I did that a number of times over years for Lake Country Airways predecessor, and Jeff knows that. A float endorsement, and the first few dozen hours thereafter, do not provide the experience necessary to make all the needed judgements about operations in a new lake. Once you have a few hundred trouble free hours of float PIC, perhaps the rules will evolve to be more to your liking.

Once you have arranged hull insurance for a floatplane for a low time pilot, the realities may make more sense. But believe me, the insurers know.
living in southern onterrible haha
I've flown to nearly every corner of Ontario, lived near Lake Simcoe all my life, and I have not been to that part.
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rxl
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by rxl »

I instructed on floats out of Lake St. John in the early eighties and the the rule even back then was that rental float pilots were restricted to licenced sea plane bases only or have a check out in the lake that you wanted to visit.
Sounds like things haven't changed much.
Where is this "Onterrible" anyhow? I've never heard of it.
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by PilotDAR »

the insurance hassle facing floatplane owners leasing out their aircraft.
To be honest, I can't think of one private floatplane owner I know of who would want to rent out their plane. Any possible return for doing that would undoubtedly be consumed the first time there was damage or a problem away from home base. It's just not worth it.

Similarly, it's not a "hassle" with insurance, they are a business, like any other, they would like to make a profit, so manage risks carefully. For a landplane, things are straight forward, instruct that it is not to be landed away from certified airports, and the owner and insurer can be confident that risks are greatly reduced, and if something happens, it's probably at an airport, which is somewhat convenient to access to resolve things.

A floatplane, other than flying circuits at home base, is pretty well assured to be landing in non aerodrome environments. Suddenly, the insurer could be looking at the cost of a damaged plane, and a $20,000 bill to remove it. Their best protection against this will be a pilot who will not have a problem in these places. That confidence can only come with experience for the pilot.

The seaplane pilots I have trained and mentored over the years sometimes had to be reigned in to not think that they can go anywhere in the plane - that will come in time. Until then, its probably best to willingly accept the terms of the aircraft provider and their insurer, they know.....
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Andrew24
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by Andrew24 »

PilotDAR wrote: I've flown to nearly every corner of Ontario, lived near Lake Simcoe all my life, and I have not been to that part.
Grew up north east of North Bay, ive found everything south of there to be overpopulated by citidiots. Same people i thank for the sad state of this province hence "Onterrible" Cant wait to move lol

anyway, ive got just over 100 hours on floats but renting is just as costly my hydro bill. If i cant find a cheaper option i might have stop flying floats, which i dont want to do. Eventually want to do it for a living but quite ready yet
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by Rookie50 »

Andrew24 wrote:
PilotDAR wrote: I've flown to nearly every corner of Ontario, lived near Lake Simcoe all my life, and I have not been to that part.
Grew up north east of North Bay, ive found everything south of there to be overpopulated by citidiots. Same people i thank for the sad state of this province hence "Onterrible" Cant wait to move lol

anyway, ive got just over 100 hours on floats but renting is just as costly my hydro bill. If i cant find a cheaper option i might have stop flying floats, which i dont want to do. Eventually want to do it for a living but quite ready yet
Hmmmm. Looking for block time, come on here and label everyone in southern Ontario, your target market for this, an idiot.

Then complain about the cost of renting and expect some benevolent soul to offer a cheap solution while assuming all the risk.

The entitlement and immaturity in these comments is telling, although all too common. Good luck getting anywhere with that. I'd suggest, and for anyone else too, re read Dar's comment above, carefully.

Why on earth would anyone owning a nice rig offer it on blocktime to anyone they didn't know well, especially an inexperienced pilot. The key question is always, what's in it for them?

The thought that there are thousands of fine aircraft owners ready to assist new pilots by offering their aircraft....I'll burst that balloon.
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rxl
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by rxl »

Andrew24 wrote:
Grew up north east of North Bay, ive found everything south of there to be overpopulated by citidiots. Same people i thank for the sad state of this province hence "Onterrible" Cant wait to move lol

anyway, ive got just over 100 hours on floats but renting is just as costly my hydro bill. If i cant find a cheaper option i might have stop flying floats, which i dont want to do. Eventually want to do it for a living but quite ready yet
Sounds to me like you got the part about not being "quite ready yet" bang on.
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Re: float block time in the GTA?

Post by PilotDAR »

ive found everything south of there to be overpopulated by citidiots.
Well, if you feel that way... For myself, I have never been a resident of a city, but I'm not inclined to label people based upon where they choose to live. I find an immense convenience in being able to drive an hour to Toronto, and purchase most anything I would need - including airplane parts and materials.
Cant wait to move lol
To each their own, but you did ask about float block time in the GTA, so answered as asked...

I have visited all 12 (13?) provinces and territories, all 50 US states, and about 30 countries, and I chose southern Ontario to live. I can afford my planes, and I can afford my hydro. They are both very much cheaper than many other places on earth. The fact that I can buy a hundred acres, build a runway and my house, so my family and planes are all at home is remarkable, considering the restrictions residents face in other countries. I am very luck to live here.
If i cant find a cheaper option i might have stop flying floats, which i dont want to do.
I found that the most cost effective private flying if you're intended to fly 100+ hours a year, is to own the plane. You might choose to rent out your plane to recover costs, but I have never, for the reasons previously stated. If you have ownership, you, and everyone else, know that you take seriously care for the aircraft.

When I knew that I had some flying to do in a colossally expensive amphibian belonging to a client, I had to bolster my amphibian time for the insurance. I bought a modest amphibian, and flew it lots. I learned lots, even though I've been flying for 40 years. I was insured on the fancy amphibian at a rate considered reasonable. The premium was $17,500, with a $25,000 deductible - so I would be on the hook for the first $25,000 of damage I might do. I certainly don't want to be paying that, so to prevent that, I flew it like I owned it - because the first $25,000 - I did! Then, on that insurance, I had to train my client, the new owner, including all the risky stuff, glassy water, forced approaches onto land and water, and docking.

The owner of any plane understands that ultimately, they are on the hook for anything which goes wrong with their plane. If they did it themselves, its between them and their insurance company, if covered. But, if someone else caused the damage, what will happen? After the damage, "oops, sorry about that" doesn't cut it.

To succeed in being let loose on someone's floatplane, you need to satisfy them that you have the skill, experience and wisdom to get it right all the time. The problem is that for the first 100 hours, a new float pilot is still learning what getting it right is. Aside from the required 5 solo landings and takeoffs for my float endorsement (which in hind sight, the owner took as risk upon him on my behalf), I had hundreds of hours flying floats in other generous owner's floatplanes before I took one solo anywhere. Most of the floatplanes I flew had no hull insurance anyway, I did not want to be solo it them! I had immense old school mentoring.

I find that new pilots are so eager to go solo. Though I understand the eagerness, new pilots will learn more in the company of other pilots, either as the pilot flying, or even just an observing passenger. New pilots might learn good things, and might even learn what not to do, by witnessing the owner's mistakes.

GA is suffering from a reduction in mentoring in some types of flying, in particular amphibian, flying boat, and tailwheel types. Mentor pilots, including me, are becoming more wary, there can be liability, and again the theme creeps back in, "is the risk worth the reward?". Several pilots I have mentored have crashed later in their flying. I never felt that it was a gap in my mentoring, as for those whom I have fully type trained, a training plan was signed off, as satisfactory. But, I still worry that someone's spouse comes back at me. Was the few hundred bucks I was paid for a few hours training worth the first hour I could spend in a lawyer's office, planning a defense? Nope!

So if I take a risk, and mentor a pilot to another type, I choose to do so based upon their demonstrated willingness to invest in their training, and do it with an opened mind to learning. People who are looking for "cheap", or "quick", or who will not take it seriously are not on the right track with my acceptance of risk.
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