CBC News looking for comment

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wbrowncbc
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CBC News looking for comment

Post by wbrowncbc »

Hello - I'm a journalist with the CBC writing an article on airfare in Canada and why it's so much more expensive than the majority of the rest of the world. I'm looking for anybody to comment on the frustrations of flying in Canada and how that affects your travel plans. Would anybody be able to willing to talk over the phone some time tomorrow morning over the phone? You can contact me at london.desk@cbc.ca.
Thank you all.
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ahramin
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by ahramin »

A journalist? Who won't post his/her name?
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CpnCrunch
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by CpnCrunch »

ahramin wrote:A journalist? Who won't post his/her name?
His name is in his username and a quick google search reveals his full name and facebook page...
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Bacunayagua
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Bacunayagua »

I personally think it comes down to population density, the relationship between the amount of people per unit of area. All the places that have extremely cheap tickets, tend to have a very high population density. Europe, where infamous Ryanair is the name in low cost air travel, has an area of 10 million squared KM's and a population of almost 750 million. Canada, with a very similar land area, only has 35 million people for airlines to fly around.

Anywhere in the world that has lower air fare than Canada, will have a substantially higher population density.

Higher pop density=cheaper air fare and vice versa.
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cncpc
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by cncpc »

The privatization of airports by TC has also resulted in airport charges being a very high component of ticket price. Not just security and pax fees, but the fees for landing, real estate, etc.
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Bacunayagua
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Bacunayagua »

While the mentioned privatization definitely doesn't help, The main deciding factor is population density. Population density is the "economy of scales" equivalent of air travel. The more people you have to fly, specially over shorter distances, the cheaper the tickets are. Even with airport privatization, If we had similar a similar population density of Europe and many Asian countries, prices would be similar.

Of course you'd have to introduce the low cost model, which again, only works well when theres plenty of people around.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by PilotDAR »

Happily, Transport Canada actually regulates and audits the quality systems of operations and maintenance, as well as the behind the scenes supply of parts and materials. The operator bears the cost of decent maintenance, as it is a requirement. Similarly crew training, and other operational requirements. So, though perhaps over regulated in the eyes of some, we have a pretty safe, and robust airline industry. When you understand how many people it actually takes to get an airliner out and back safely, and that each of those people would like to be paid well, the cost of airline tickets seems often to be a deal. There are some low cost airlines in Europe, I simply will not fly on, because $40 for a 1.5 hour trip is just too cheap, something is being pared to the bone.

And then there's infrastructure. We don't like standing at the base of a staircase, in the howling wind and snow. We'd rather walk down a reasonably temperate jetway. The airline I think of in Europe is known for having their own gates at the airports they operate - no jetways, you're walking across the apron, in the wind, rain and noise, so the airline is not paying for the infrastructure. Someone has to pay for all that infrastructure in "the north" which in the middle latitudes, is not really needed. Clearing snow, deicing, heated maintenance hangars are not needed in the south. Lots of cost savings for operations in those areas.

Our culture (in Canada) likes to think of ourselves as advanced and safe. Well, that comes at quite a cost. I'm happy to pay it, I value my life. Airfare is more costly in Canada, because people like me will pay those prices, in the interest of comfort and safety.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Heliian »

As mentioned above, we do have pretty high standards to maintain. Those costs are being minimized by sending work offshore. I would never want to see any further degradation of that component.

One way to lower fares is to lower profit margins. For the same profit margin however, fares could be reduced by reducing fuel tax and other related "offsets". Also, as stated above, airports are getting more expensive to operate in/out of with fewer options and more airports on the verge of closing.
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rvdungen
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by rvdungen »

If you think it's expensive you aren't validating the convenience correctly. Try driving or taking a train.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by I WAS Birddog »

Asking pilots for their opinion on the logistical strategy behind the corporate executives' maneuvering on pricing in an aviation forum, is like asking an American Presidential candidate his opinion on the topic of attractive women in the back of a party bus.

Everyone calm down.
Move along.

Nothing to see here.
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loopy
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by loopy »

I think population density is part of the issue, but high airport fees and fuel taxes are a big part of the operating expense. As others have stated I would not want to decrease rules and regulations. In fact, Transport Canada on the aviation side is woefully understaffed. They do not have the manpower for audits and inspections they've done historically. The regulatory system is world class but i wonder about enforcement.
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G.N. Thompson
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by G.N. Thompson »

Actually the regulatory has a serious flaw too...see profile and click link to 52 minutes of trying to explain that.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Cat Driver »

The regulatory system is world class
I'll second that.

It is world class for complexity and world class for trying to interpret its real meaning....just try and get two opinions that agree from T.C.
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Re: CBC News looking for commen

Post by TheStig »

wbrowncbc wrote:Hello - I'm a journalist with the CBC writing an article on airfare in Canada and why it's so much more expensive than the majority of the rest of the world. I'm looking for anybody to comment on the frustrations of flying in Canada and how that affects your travel plans. Would anybody be able to willing to talk over the phone some time tomorrow morning over the phone? You can contact me at london.desk@cbc.ca.
Thank you all.

I have a better article for you to research. Why is Journalism on aviation in Canada so much poorer in than the majority of the rest of the world, here's a helpful hint; You've already determined your outcome before doing any research.

Two things: First creating a filter by looking for travellers who already believe air travel is expensive and then asking them why they find it frustrating? Seriously!? The cost conscious, penny pinching, Expedia search for the cheapest ticket to Florida isn't going to provide a seamless travel experience. The CBC can write all the nasty articles is wants, consumers want cheap air travel not good air travel that's why low cost airlines have flourished, their product isn't better, it's cheaper.

Second, to be precise 'airfare' in Canada isn't expensive, paying to get your bum into a seat at the gate is. Let me explain: Airlines which provide the airfare only actually collect about $100 of the price of a one-way ticket from central Canada to Florida. The rest, ground fare(?), is a collaborative effort of everyone else getting their hand in the cookie jar, $20-$25 for your carry one baggage to be X-Rayed and your palms swabbed, another $25 for the privilege of walking through the glorious terminal and past its waterfalls, there are also a number of customs fees that don't apply if you were to drive across the boarder, but heh everyone else seems to think it's okay to soak air travellers!

As mentioned, the federal government gets in on the action through charging the airport authorities rents, not to mention HST on all the aforementioned taxes, and yes, security fees are a tax, where else are citizens charged separately for security? So while other forms of transportation are subsidized aviation is subjected to taxes on taxes.

Think about the $100 the airline receives for a minute, they need to supply the $80 million airplane, its properly trained crew, fuel (which the Ontario Liberals tax extra), and the Nav Fees for air traffic control and assume the liability to get you to your destination should any issues arise. That seems like a steal of a deal to me when you consider it cost $120/week to park at most airports.

Standing by for more hard hitting government subsidized journalism..
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Heliian »

TheStig wrote:
wbrowncbc wrote:Hello - I'm a journalist with the CBC writing an article on airfare in Canada and why it's so much more expensive than the majority of the rest of the world. I'm looking for anybody to comment on the frustrations of flying in Canada and how that affects your travel plans. Would anybody be able to willing to talk over the phone some time tomorrow morning over the phone? You can contact me at london.desk@cbc.ca.
Thank you all.

I have a better article for you to research. Why is Journalism on aviation in Canada so much poorer in than the majority of the rest of the world, here's a helpful hint; You've already determined your outcome before doing any research.

Two things: First creating a filter by looking for travellers who already believe air travel is expensive and then asking them why they find it frustrating? Seriously!? The cost conscious, penny pinching, Expedia search for the cheapest ticket to Florida isn't going to provide a seamless travel experience. The CBC can write all the nasty articles is wants, consumers want cheap air travel not good air travel that's why low cost airlines have flourished, their product isn't better, it's cheaper.

Second, to be precise 'airfare' in Canada isn't expensive, paying to get your bum into a seat at the gate is. Let me explain: Airlines which provide the airfare only actually collect about $100 of the price of a one-way ticket from central Canada to Florida. The rest, ground fare(?), is a collaborative effort of everyone else getting their hand in the cookie jar, $20-$25 for your carry one baggage to be X-Rayed and your palms swabbed, another $25 for the privilege of walking through the glorious terminal and past its waterfalls, there are also a number of customs fees that don't apply if you were to drive across the boarder, but heh everyone else seems to think it's okay to soak air travellers!

As mentioned, the federal government gets in on the action through charging the airport authorities rents, not to mention HST on all the aforementioned taxes, and yes, security fees are a tax, where else are citizens charged separately for security? So while other forms of transportation are subsidized aviation is subjected to taxes on taxes.

Think about the $100 the airline receives for a minute, they need to supply the $80 million airplane, its properly trained crew, fuel (which the Ontario Liberals tax extra), and the Nav Fees for air traffic control and assume the liability to get you to your destination should any issues arise. That seems like a steal of a deal to me when you consider it cost $120/week to park at most airports.

Standing by for more hard hitting government subsidized journalism..
I WAS Birddog wrote:Asking pilots for their opinion on the logistical strategy behind the corporate executives' maneuvering on pricing in an aviation forum, is like asking an American Presidential candidate his opinion on the topic of attractive women in the back of a party bus.

Everyone calm down.
Move along.

Nothing to see here.
You could just provide some constructive input or stay out of it, maybe we could start a partisan arguement here too.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Inverted2 »

CBC = Fake News

The Canadian version of CNN
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B208
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by B208 »

wbrowncbc wrote:Hello - I'm a journalist with the CBC writing an article on airfare in Canada and why it's so much more expensive than the majority of the rest of the world. I'm looking for anybody to comment on the frustrations of flying in Canada and how that affects your travel plans. Would anybody be able to willing to talk over the phone some time tomorrow morning over the phone? You can contact me at london.desk@cbc.ca.
Thank you all.
How would you like to do something useful? Why don't you write an article on how young pilots flying in the bush face a constant pressure to bend or break regulations, (regulations regarding flying an aircraft with too much weight, or flying an aircraft that has a mechanical defect or regulations about flying fatigued), or loose their jobs? That might actually be a public service.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Cat Driver »

How would you like to do something useful? Why don't you write an article on how young pilots flying in the bush face a constant pressure to bend or break regulations, (regulations regarding flying an aircraft with too much weight, or flying an aircraft that has a mechanical defect or regulations about flying fatigued), or loose their jobs? That might actually be a public service.
For sure you will get a lot more co-operation on that subject, but of course that is not interesting enough to the news media....until someone gets killed of course.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Rookie50 »

B208 wrote:
wbrowncbc wrote:Hello - I'm a journalist with the CBC writing an article on airfare in Canada and why it's so much more expensive than the majority of the rest of the world. I'm looking for anybody to comment on the frustrations of flying in Canada and how that affects your travel plans. Would anybody be able to willing to talk over the phone some time tomorrow morning over the phone? You can contact me at london.desk@cbc.ca.
Thank you all.
How would you like to do something useful? Why don't you write an article on how young pilots flying in the bush face a constant pressure to bend or break regulations, (regulations regarding flying an aircraft with too much weight, or flying an aircraft that has a mechanical defect or regulations about flying fatigued), or loose their jobs? That might actually be a public service.
The media is not in the business of providing informative knowledge, no offense to the OP, largely speaking.

They are in the business of competing for ratings, via inflaming reader's emotions.

If I was the OP and striving for excellence, I'd consider this and ask why are media approval ratings at all time lows, far below any of our politicians.
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Re: CBC News looking for comment

Post by Boreas »

wbrowncbc, don't listen to any of these guys.

The real reason behind Canada's expensive airfare is that pilots are being paid too much.
They also get too many days off and their average workday is too short.
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