Air Canada putting bigger plane on Victoria-Toronto route

[234james]

Air Canada is going bigger for its direct flights between Victoria and Toronto.
The airline is bringing a Boeing 767-300ER to the route, which will be the largest aircraft on the Victoria International Airport’s regular schedule. Air Canada Rouge, a wholly owned subsidiary, will operate the flight. “Our Victoria-Toronto non-stop flights have traditionally been very popular and, starting this summer, we’re increasing our capacity on this popular route by up to 65 per cent in the peak July travel period,” Air Canada spokeswoman Angela Mah said in an email.
The shift may also mean fewer comforts for passengers, with slightly narrower seats, less leg room and shallower reclines in economy class. Air Canada currently offers a daily 6 a.m. flight from Victoria to Toronto, typically aboard a 200-seat Airbus 321, said Victoria International Airport spokesman James Bogusz. Economy seats in the Airbus A321 have a seat width of 45.3 centimetres, seat pitch of between 79 and 89 centimetres and seat recline of 11.4 centimetres.
Air Canada Rouge’s Boeing 767 includes 258 economy-class seats and 24 premium seats. Economy seats are 44.5 centimetres wide with a 76-centimetre pitch and 7.6-centimetre recline. Seat pitch is the distance from any point on one seat to the same point on the seat in front or behind.
The airport authority has been told that beginning May 1, the departure time from Victoria will shift to 11:35 a.m. On June 24, the departure time will change to 11:55 a.m. Departure times are subject to change as Air Canada finalizes its schedule. “From the airport authority’s perspective, we’re thrilled that Air Canada’s service continues to grow here. Although it’s not a new flight, it’s increased capacity, which is great,” Bogusz said.
He said the later time will help reduce some of the morning rush to the security line at the airport.

[Rowdy]

Fantastic news! Good to see little YYJ getting some wide body service.

[FICU]

"Rouging" the domestic market... how long till mainline is only international?

[AirFrame]

I thought they needed to extend the main runway before they could bring in anything bigger? One of the pilot's briefings done here at YYJ mentioned that it was something like 100' shorter than the "standards" allowed for heavier A/C. Maybe they're doing the 100' extension in the time between now and May when it starts...

[CpnCrunch]

I thought they needed to extend the main runway before they could bring in anything bigger? One of the pilot's briefings done here at YYJ mentioned that it was something like 100' shorter than the "standards" allowed for heavier A/C. Maybe they're doing the 100' extension in the time between now and May when it starts...

Presumably it just depends on the specific weight for each flight. So maybe they just need that extra 100ft for a fully loaded 747-400?

As mentioned in those briefings, YYJ has a lot of things that aren't quite up to standards (like the taxiways being too close to the runways).

[ahramin]

I thought they needed to extend the main runway before they could bring in anything bigger? One of the pilot's briefings done here at YYJ mentioned that it was something like 100' shorter than the "standards" allowed for heavier A/C. Maybe they're doing the 100' extension in the time between now and May when it starts...

Runway length required varies with conditions and weight. There's no standard runway length.

[URC]

I thought they needed to extend the main runway before they could bring in anything bigger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxii9qLNjg

[goingnowherefast]

I'm sure there's a point where they decide if the average loads available will justify the aircraft type on said route. Somebody in operations probably ran the numbers on average loads from that airport that the can sell, then asked the marketing department if it's financially viable.

A hot, low pressure windless day may not break even, but a cold, windy high pressure day will make up for that. There is no "standard" length for daily operations, but the marketing department might have a "standard" runway length when they decide to launch a new route.

I bet a 767 can take off from a pretty short runway if it's empty. Doesn't make much money though.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Back in the 1980's Wardair used to fly a 747-200 into Victoria for Hawaii charters

[234james]

Yup.....They Should need to extend the main runway before they could bring in anything bigger.

[AirFrame]

Runway length required varies with conditions and weight. There's no standard runway length.

Right, but with the larger aircraft comes larger weight, and at the presentation we were told that the current length didn't allow the jets they wanted. Presumably they did run the numbers on running the jets at full capacity and found the runway came up short. Of course, if they never operate at full capacity it won't matter, but it would limit the airline's ability to maximize profits on the route.

[telex]

Victoria is 6998 x 200.

Maui is 6995 x 150. Widebodies operate routinely even with ETOPS fuel considerations.

[altiplano]

It will definitely do it at about the MTOW that would allow it to fly to YYZ and be below MLW...

Here you go...

B767-3GE
YYJ CYYJ / RWY 27
TORA 6998 FT
FLAP* : 20 OPTI PACKS* : OFF OPTI
TEMP : 25 ENG A/I : OFF
PRESS : 29.72 WING A/I : OFF
WEIGHT : 166.0 RWY COND : WET

WIND THRUST WEIGHT V1-VR-V2 TOCA
0 TOGA 166.9 141-145-152 1570
TOGA 166.0 141-145-152 1570

[yycflyguy]

166,000kg will haul a lot of dead fish and Birkenstocks YYJ-YYZ!

Typical weights coming out of YVR are around 145,000-147,000kg and that is with full pax and a "short" alternate.

[altiplano]

Yeah, not typical of course... Maybe with all those rouge seats full and a higher than normal burn... I just did rough and dirty worst case...

Point is no problem... Full, 25°, wet runway, West toward terrain... You'd have everything you need to get out of there...

[brooks]

I am sure they ran the numbers on the field length. Victoria on 4-4.5 hour flight to and from YYZ is a cup in the bucket for fuel compared to the ETOPS fuel requirements of OGG. Question is can they make more money than WestJet's 737-8 vs their Rouge 767?

[altiplano]

The way CASM has narrowed the last few years I have no doubt.

[co-joe]

The way CASM has narrowed the last few years I have no doubt.

And that's the kicker isn't it? Rouge's cost structure allows big red to throw the 67 into smaller markets. The BELF must be considerably lower than with mainline.

[ZBBYLW]

The 767 Should have no problem on such a flight. I'd be more curuous about the 321 off 27 on a hot day with a long alternate for yyz. No doubt that will be close to mtow.. probably lots of toga flap 3 takeoffs.

[KenoraPilot]

Glad to see the loads are just going up