LoL, HRDC is the lowest denominator.. Sorry. That's right when the bugger pays for it, it's bad.
but when my tax dollars pay for it.. *fuming*..
Do what you gota do !
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Like the prostitute said "You got it - you sell it - you still got it'
Paying for a PPC is wrong, however, I have seen firsthand why it is necessary. At least in the minds of the bean counters. And remember that the lowest life form, one small step below a pilot who will work for free is a bean counter. They believe in the golden rule - he who has the gold, rules.Maybe not all bean counters are like that, but a large number of them are. If I wanted to be a lawyer, I go to law school and get a degree. Then I go looking for a job. If I find benificial employment in another field, I still have a law degree. If I pay almost the same money as going to law school and get a PPC on an airplane and cannot find a job, in 4 years I have nothing. To practice in my chosen profession, I have to start all over again. This is where the air operator has to step up. Pay for an INITIAL PPC. Sign a bond, whatever, but I think the air operator also has to enter into the agreement with the pilot. A contract is an agreement between TWO PEOPLE. The air operator and the pilot. It is a two way street. Unfortunatly, who said life is fair. I think that for every unprincipalled air operator there are an equal number of unprincipalled pilots. Those are the ones that make it hard on the rest of us. Just like speed bumps in the mall parking lot. They are there for the a##hole who thinks high speed is cool. I think we are talking the same thing here. My only thought is that we as pilots will have to remember the tough times when the mythical pilot shortage comes along and air operators are down on their knees. We must diplomatic and cordial, never ever be rude and obnoxious, just very very expensive. At least that is what I think.
P.S.
Look what appears to be happening to Alta Flights. If that turns out to be true, they are on the skids and we should do everything in our limited power to grease those skids. I am not ever suggesting anything illegal or violent or anything stupid like that, I mean lets all try to help out all the employees if we can and hopefully, the owners will show up some morning with nobody to look at but themselves. Now that is what I call a pipe dream. In my humble opinion, Alta Flights are just holding the shitty end of the stick. The real culprit is the courier company. They hold the contract from the banks. You see you do not require a PPC do drive a van. All you need is a desire to work real cheap. I believe the courier company is partly owned by a person who has a financial interest in Nav Air. The bankers sit back in their ivory towers and tell the couriers that unless they cut their prices, it is cheaper to just dump the whole idea and use computers. The dumb shmucks at the courier company all run scared and say "Take from us - we don't need to eat !!!!" Nuff said
Paying for a PPC is wrong, however, I have seen firsthand why it is necessary. At least in the minds of the bean counters. And remember that the lowest life form, one small step below a pilot who will work for free is a bean counter. They believe in the golden rule - he who has the gold, rules.Maybe not all bean counters are like that, but a large number of them are. If I wanted to be a lawyer, I go to law school and get a degree. Then I go looking for a job. If I find benificial employment in another field, I still have a law degree. If I pay almost the same money as going to law school and get a PPC on an airplane and cannot find a job, in 4 years I have nothing. To practice in my chosen profession, I have to start all over again. This is where the air operator has to step up. Pay for an INITIAL PPC. Sign a bond, whatever, but I think the air operator also has to enter into the agreement with the pilot. A contract is an agreement between TWO PEOPLE. The air operator and the pilot. It is a two way street. Unfortunatly, who said life is fair. I think that for every unprincipalled air operator there are an equal number of unprincipalled pilots. Those are the ones that make it hard on the rest of us. Just like speed bumps in the mall parking lot. They are there for the a##hole who thinks high speed is cool. I think we are talking the same thing here. My only thought is that we as pilots will have to remember the tough times when the mythical pilot shortage comes along and air operators are down on their knees. We must diplomatic and cordial, never ever be rude and obnoxious, just very very expensive. At least that is what I think.
P.S.
Look what appears to be happening to Alta Flights. If that turns out to be true, they are on the skids and we should do everything in our limited power to grease those skids. I am not ever suggesting anything illegal or violent or anything stupid like that, I mean lets all try to help out all the employees if we can and hopefully, the owners will show up some morning with nobody to look at but themselves. Now that is what I call a pipe dream. In my humble opinion, Alta Flights are just holding the shitty end of the stick. The real culprit is the courier company. They hold the contract from the banks. You see you do not require a PPC do drive a van. All you need is a desire to work real cheap. I believe the courier company is partly owned by a person who has a financial interest in Nav Air. The bankers sit back in their ivory towers and tell the couriers that unless they cut their prices, it is cheaper to just dump the whole idea and use computers. The dumb shmucks at the courier company all run scared and say "Take from us - we don't need to eat !!!!" Nuff said
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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cloudmind29
- Rank 0
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:23 pm
All good points I think. In the end, whatever works for the individual.
You rarely can make it to the top without some people hating your guts. It's a market out there. You could pay for a PPC and work or not and hate the one that did.
[quote="FA28 guy"]Jobhunter
Prostitues do not work for free. They have better representation and hourly rates than pilots. They also stick together to keep the cost up. [/quote
Well said.
I think if we'd stick together as pilots and not pay for it then the operators would have to pay for it. But that's living in Utopia.
Do what you must, hating the ones that do it won't make a difference.
If you have a plan to solve the problem, tell us.
BTW Working for free is just plain wrong. I couldn't afford it.
You rarely can make it to the top without some people hating your guts. It's a market out there. You could pay for a PPC and work or not and hate the one that did.
[quote="FA28 guy"]Jobhunter
Prostitues do not work for free. They have better representation and hourly rates than pilots. They also stick together to keep the cost up. [/quote
Well said.
I think if we'd stick together as pilots and not pay for it then the operators would have to pay for it. But that's living in Utopia.
Do what you must, hating the ones that do it won't make a difference.
If you have a plan to solve the problem, tell us.
BTW Working for free is just plain wrong. I couldn't afford it.
In way, yes. Unless they sign a commitement (contract..)to stay in the company for a certain period of time, when the trainning has been payed for the job performed.Capicce ?In other words , if you stay for six months (supose) then we pay for your PPC. Is a matter of negotiate, time and trainning and cost of it.TheHub wrote:jobhunter quote:
"Pay for a PPC: I'll say that's depends the equipment that you're going to fly. For example : If you got experience in let's say PA 31 and your PPC is no longer valid, I don't think that is fair to pay again. If you never flown an aircraft like that before, sure is a fair think to pay for the trainning."
Not sure if I am reading your post correctly jobhunter, but are you saying that because a guy/girl may not have any experience on type they should have to pay for the training???
Never ever give up --- up to a point, right?
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just another pilot
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:05 pm
- Location: Edmonton
BS Initial training should be no different. Those are revenue producing aircraft. They do not create revenue by sitting on the ground. That is where they stay until a current PPC'd pilot operates them. Next the operators will want lower time guys to offset insurance premiums.
Utopia? Well, some other professions just humbly call it a code of ethical standards and practices...
Utopia? Well, some other professions just humbly call it a code of ethical standards and practices...
Guys.. the way i see it if you are willing to pay for you PPC then you are willing to work for free... You figure $30000 is probably pretty close to your first year wages at the "new company" so technically you are working the first year for free.. And if its not close then the Gov't will take the rest..
As far a bonds go, i think its ok depending on the terms. If the company is using it to protect their investment then good for them.
Personally i haven't paid for squat yet and im not about to start.
thats my 1 cent.. - the Gov't took the other..
As far a bonds go, i think its ok depending on the terms. If the company is using it to protect their investment then good for them.
Personally i haven't paid for squat yet and im not about to start.
thats my 1 cent.. - the Gov't took the other..
jobhunter,
Wrong attitude buddy...whether it is initial training or someone with thousands of hours on the machine, the company should still be paying for the training. That pilot should then stay with the company for a respectable term and not jump ship for another company that pays $100/month more. This should be done out of respect, a good work ethic, and dedication. And when an opportunity does come up to leave for something better, give proper notice and leave on good terms. You are supposed to be a profeesional, so act like one.
Can you please explain why it should make a difference if you have no time on the aircraft??? I don't see how you think that a pilot who just spent $40,000 on their training should be expected to pay another $10,000 for a PPC???
Anyone else have a say in paying for the initial training PPC?
Wrong attitude buddy...whether it is initial training or someone with thousands of hours on the machine, the company should still be paying for the training. That pilot should then stay with the company for a respectable term and not jump ship for another company that pays $100/month more. This should be done out of respect, a good work ethic, and dedication. And when an opportunity does come up to leave for something better, give proper notice and leave on good terms. You are supposed to be a profeesional, so act like one.
Can you please explain why it should make a difference if you have no time on the aircraft??? I don't see how you think that a pilot who just spent $40,000 on their training should be expected to pay another $10,000 for a PPC???
Anyone else have a say in paying for the initial training PPC?
Fact..first yr of westjet you have to invest in the company..after that you are on your own. Your take home pay is 800 every 2 weeks. you ARE paying for your PPC.
The 30,000 you pay at the "new company" (jetsgo) has nothing to do with your wage. You get paid PLUS you get the 30,000 back with interest.
Let me get this straight AHRAIM...you had just over 200 hrs, multi IFR, no experience, never worked for crap money and now work at a company that hired you because of your ?????????. I call bullshit!!
The 30,000 you pay at the "new company" (jetsgo) has nothing to do with your wage. You get paid PLUS you get the 30,000 back with interest.
Let me get this straight AHRAIM...you had just over 200 hrs, multi IFR, no experience, never worked for crap money and now work at a company that hired you because of your ?????????. I call bullshit!!
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just another pilot
- Rank (9)
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- Location: Edmonton
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friendlypete
- Rank 0
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:38 pm
[quote="just another pilot"] However, that is not the same as opening your wallet and physically paying currency to an operator to train you on a revenue generating machine that they operate.
Really? What do call a flight school's 152? I had to pay for every flight. And I'm pretty sure some of it went to revenue.
Really? What do call a flight school's 152? I had to pay for every flight. And I'm pretty sure some of it went to revenue.
I want to thank the participants who expressed opinions. I hope everyone understands that there is no correct answer to this. We all have to do what it takes to move forward. Check out the add buy 50 hours float plane so that you can do what? Insurance companies are now raising the standards for the left seat. Where before the time was flexible now it's mandatory. I'm sure that on this new project I'll be talking to a few of you.
Thanks for the input.
Thanks for the input.
Paying for job specific training is becoming more common across many fields of endevour. For example, if you want to be a probation officer in BC you first must get your BA, then you have to pay several thousand more to take the "PO employment readiness course" at the Justice Institute of BC. You pay to take that course prior to being offered a job, and even once completed you are not assured a job. Not too dissimilar from getting your commercial multi-IFR, and then having to pay for your PPC. And even more like a PPC, your JIBC certificate is only valid for, I believe, two years. Fire and police departments, corrections, and several other government agencies are all going, or long ago went, in that same direction.
So, I don't think paying for a PPC is unreasonable. I think a potential employer has the right to expect you to be fully qualified for the job when they hire you. That said, the industry's ability to require a PPC will be market driven. As long as there is a supply of pilots with PPC's (could be anything from a ho to 747) any individual airline should have the option of expecting a new hire to already have one. When the supply of PPC'd pilots is too small, the companies will have to start footing the bill.
As for working for free, absolutely not under any circumstance. It is illegal for any company, and maybe the employee/slave/scab as well, to engage in the practice. If I were in aviation management, I can tell you I would blacklist for life any pilot who ever worked for free at another airline. I know the company I once worked for on the BC coast blacklisted anyone who scabbed for free at Aquilla in Qualicum. The theory being that they tried to undercut us and take our business by working for free, hence, the bastards could go to hell.
So, I don't think paying for a PPC is unreasonable. I think a potential employer has the right to expect you to be fully qualified for the job when they hire you. That said, the industry's ability to require a PPC will be market driven. As long as there is a supply of pilots with PPC's (could be anything from a ho to 747) any individual airline should have the option of expecting a new hire to already have one. When the supply of PPC'd pilots is too small, the companies will have to start footing the bill.
As for working for free, absolutely not under any circumstance. It is illegal for any company, and maybe the employee/slave/scab as well, to engage in the practice. If I were in aviation management, I can tell you I would blacklist for life any pilot who ever worked for free at another airline. I know the company I once worked for on the BC coast blacklisted anyone who scabbed for free at Aquilla in Qualicum. The theory being that they tried to undercut us and take our business by working for free, hence, the bastards could go to hell.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
A couple of comments.
First why not go back to the Chief Pilot determining how much flying any given new hire requires to fly their airplane.
Someone has went way overboard by demanding that every pilot take training based on having to fly the same number of hours that the most inept in the business require.
It is getting to the point that it would be getter to just start out being a crimminal and actually making some money.
Or you could get a Government job and not be required to know or do anything constructive.
Or you could become a polititian and lie your way to wealth....and get to run say some of the Liberals neat little scams where you can make your friends rich while collecting your retirement nest egg.
Of all of the above I think I would choose to be a crimminal because I would want to have some integrity.
Cat
First why not go back to the Chief Pilot determining how much flying any given new hire requires to fly their airplane.
Someone has went way overboard by demanding that every pilot take training based on having to fly the same number of hours that the most inept in the business require.
It is getting to the point that it would be getter to just start out being a crimminal and actually making some money.
Or you could get a Government job and not be required to know or do anything constructive.
Or you could become a polititian and lie your way to wealth....and get to run say some of the Liberals neat little scams where you can make your friends rich while collecting your retirement nest egg.
Of all of the above I think I would choose to be a crimminal because I would want to have some integrity.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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just another pilot
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- Location: Edmonton
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Check Pilot
- Rank 6
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:26 am
Perhaps a bit of a return to some roots will help in this discussion thread.
It's called:
SATISFACTION
(COMMENTARY. Whether they fly a Skylane, a Boeing or the Space Shuttle, all airmen are bound inextricably together by a common love of flight.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One fine hot summer's afternoon saw a Cessna 182 flying jumpers at a quiet country drop zone. The jump pilot was getting quite bothered with one student's inability to get out on the strut and was getting impatient at the jumpmaster for not just kicking the student out of the plane. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000 feet above him and thought "Another 500 hours of this and I have a chance at that twin charter job! Aaahh...to be a real pilot...going somewhere!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Company's premier clients. He'd already set MCT and the cylinders didn't like it in the heat of this Summer's day. He was at 6,000 feet and the winds were now a 20-knot headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty damn tired. Maybe if he got 10,000 feet out of them the wind might die off...geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000 feet in the serene blue sky. "Oh man," he thought. "My interview is next month. I hope I just don't blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the weather...no snotty passengers to wait for...aahhh."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due to traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CAT II minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and it looked as if everyone was going to take a damn paycut. The F/O's will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn't anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2. Tapping his F/O's shoulder as the 737 book another bashing, he said, "Now that's what we should be on...huge pay packet...super fast...not too many routes...not too many sectors...above the CAT...yep! What a life...!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down. That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he'd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain," he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle." The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems.. aahh. Must be a great way to earn a quid.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200 feet out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200 feet predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasn't much help. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isn't this the kinda flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now that's flying! Man, that's what it's all about! Geez, I'd give my left nut just to be doing that down there!"
What the Discovery Commander was looking at was a Cessna 182 flying circuits and a jumper descending under canopy at a quiet country drop zone on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
!!
It's called:
SATISFACTION
(COMMENTARY. Whether they fly a Skylane, a Boeing or the Space Shuttle, all airmen are bound inextricably together by a common love of flight.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One fine hot summer's afternoon saw a Cessna 182 flying jumpers at a quiet country drop zone. The jump pilot was getting quite bothered with one student's inability to get out on the strut and was getting impatient at the jumpmaster for not just kicking the student out of the plane. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000 feet above him and thought "Another 500 hours of this and I have a chance at that twin charter job! Aaahh...to be a real pilot...going somewhere!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Company's premier clients. He'd already set MCT and the cylinders didn't like it in the heat of this Summer's day. He was at 6,000 feet and the winds were now a 20-knot headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty damn tired. Maybe if he got 10,000 feet out of them the wind might die off...geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000 feet in the serene blue sky. "Oh man," he thought. "My interview is next month. I hope I just don't blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the weather...no snotty passengers to wait for...aahhh."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due to traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CAT II minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and it looked as if everyone was going to take a damn paycut. The F/O's will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn't anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2. Tapping his F/O's shoulder as the 737 book another bashing, he said, "Now that's what we should be on...huge pay packet...super fast...not too many routes...not too many sectors...above the CAT...yep! What a life...!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down. That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he'd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain," he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle." The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems.. aahh. Must be a great way to earn a quid.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200 feet out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200 feet predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasn't much help. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isn't this the kinda flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now that's flying! Man, that's what it's all about! Geez, I'd give my left nut just to be doing that down there!"
What the Discovery Commander was looking at was a Cessna 182 flying circuits and a jumper descending under canopy at a quiet country drop zone on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
!!
But I bet you got PPC'd to get those jobs,ahramin wrote:Facts:
I have never paid for a PPC, and have never worked for cheap my first year or first anything.
Probed
Personal
Contours
Last edited by smartass on Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Did you go through a college program? Paying $50,000 through a college rather than $30,000 through a flight school, is paying for a job also. What it all comes down to is those that are able to dish out money to get to the higher level jobs can skip the crap that the rest of us go through to get there.
I personally don't look down on them for doing it rather I think we got to look at the real reason for the situaiton and find some way to restrict this enormous pool of pilots looking for jobs.
How many times have you seen the media telling everyone out there that the majority of upper pilots will be retiring in the next 10 years and you should go get some flight training?
How many schools will tell you that you train for a year to get your commercial and then you can get a job?
How many pilots have spoken up and told the public what really happens on our side?
These are the reasons for our shitty situation not the rich punk that gets to skip the line. You can't control that so why try?
Why not petition TC for tougher licencing standards?
Why not contact the media and show them how many commercial licenced pilots are out there and how many of them are working and under what conditions?
Why not tell the flight schools to quit exploiting the public for their personal gain?
Why not stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign saying commercial pilot spare change?
Sure its fun to hark on the guy that bought the PPC but do we hark on the guy who pays way more for his licence by going to the college with job connections? When it comes right down to it, your training is a business investment and a PPC is a smart one. My flight school gave us all a lecture on working for free and lowering the standards for your fellow pilots. This after telling me to just give them $35,000 and I'll have a job flying. So who's the person to blame???? I say all those increasing this pool of pilots, why not yell at them?
Why are we yelling at our fellow pilots who after dishing out $35,000 and commiting themeselves to a life of poverty, in desperation risk another $3,500 to get that promised job??? He's just another pilot who made a smart business descision.
I personally don't look down on them for doing it rather I think we got to look at the real reason for the situaiton and find some way to restrict this enormous pool of pilots looking for jobs.
How many times have you seen the media telling everyone out there that the majority of upper pilots will be retiring in the next 10 years and you should go get some flight training?
How many schools will tell you that you train for a year to get your commercial and then you can get a job?
How many pilots have spoken up and told the public what really happens on our side?
These are the reasons for our shitty situation not the rich punk that gets to skip the line. You can't control that so why try?
Why not petition TC for tougher licencing standards?
Why not contact the media and show them how many commercial licenced pilots are out there and how many of them are working and under what conditions?
Why not tell the flight schools to quit exploiting the public for their personal gain?
Why not stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign saying commercial pilot spare change?
Sure its fun to hark on the guy that bought the PPC but do we hark on the guy who pays way more for his licence by going to the college with job connections? When it comes right down to it, your training is a business investment and a PPC is a smart one. My flight school gave us all a lecture on working for free and lowering the standards for your fellow pilots. This after telling me to just give them $35,000 and I'll have a job flying. So who's the person to blame???? I say all those increasing this pool of pilots, why not yell at them?
Why are we yelling at our fellow pilots who after dishing out $35,000 and commiting themeselves to a life of poverty, in desperation risk another $3,500 to get that promised job??? He's just another pilot who made a smart business descision.
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just another pilot
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:05 pm
- Location: Edmonton
Wow people. I can't believe how many of you compare ab anitio flight training and post second education to paying for on the job training. There is a huge difference, but if you can't see it in aviation then try an analogy. (Eg. perhaps another industry) PPC's are not a pilot's financial responsibility!
Why do some of us have an issue with this? Are you kidding me? If one guy does it, it validates the behavior of the next pilot to do it. Where does that leave me? At the mercy of cut throat people who have abdicated principles and any accountability to his/her fellow aviator. That means, either I abandon principles and ethics to be your co-worker, or I wash my hands of the industry.
Why do some of us have an issue with this? Are you kidding me? If one guy does it, it validates the behavior of the next pilot to do it. Where does that leave me? At the mercy of cut throat people who have abdicated principles and any accountability to his/her fellow aviator. That means, either I abandon principles and ethics to be your co-worker, or I wash my hands of the industry.
Last edited by just another pilot on Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
