File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

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Gannet167
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File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#1 Post by Gannet167 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:49 pm

I may be out of the loop on this but a colleague insists that SIDs are not supposed to be filed in a flight plan. Rather, the flight plan should only have en-route routing and STARs and ATC will assign a SID as required. I really prefer to file the SID I want because there's less surprise and discussion when ATC assigns me one that I don't expect, don't want, and/or cannot fly either due to equipment, climb gradient, etc. etc. Although being assigned another SID (or an complete re-route) is always a possibility, at least by filing what works best for me, I have a better likelihood of getting it and not having to engage in a discussion with clearance delivery about what I can and can't do and what I'd like to request due to whatever. I cannot find any info anywhere officially indicating that filing a SID should not be done.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#2 Post by goingnowherefast » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:03 pm

I don't recall SIDs ever being listed in the preferred routes. Filing a SID won't hurt if that's what you choose to do, ATC will do what suits their operational needs regardless.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#3 Post by photofly » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:25 pm

TC AIM is fairly specific about how to begin the route section of a flight plan, and it doesn't mention SIDs at all:

INSERT • if the departure aerodrome is located on, or connected to, the ATS route:–the designator of the first ATS route (e.g. if the departure aerodrome is Carp: T614 TUKIR, etc.); OR • if the departure aerodrome is not located on, or connected to, the ATS route: –(ICAO only) the letters “DCT”, followed by the joining point of the first ATS route, followed by the designator of the ATS route (e.g. if the departure aerodrome is Ottawa: DCT IKLAX T634, etc.);
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#4 Post by BGH » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:31 pm

All the above may be true but I was once held on the runway in Charlottetown until I read the entire Sid departure back to the fss guy in the tower - including effective date,just for a short flight to Halifax.His reason was that I hadn't put the Sid in my ifr flight plan & he wanted to make sure I had a current chart on board.

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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#5 Post by nightbird » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:38 pm

yes you can file a SID and STAR if it doesn't work with ATC they'll give you a new one and you have to give a full read-back.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#6 Post by confusedalot » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:41 pm

My information may be dated, I'm an old guy...

Suspect that you will not need to file a SID since prevailing conditions at your time of departure will have an impact on which SID is issued. I think that the SID will be ATC's call on your clearance.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#7 Post by nightbird » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:24 pm

You don't have to file a SID but you certainly can. Regarding the winds what will change is the departure runway but it's essentially the same Departure with a different transition point (it will eventually take you to a common way point down the road no matter what runway you use).
There are some preferred IFR routes that include a SID, look CYYZ Dep NW for Jets... it says URSAL DEP ZOHAN.

I used to use Flightplan.com to see previous ATC assigned routes, that worked pretty good, now I have a dispatcher doing it for me and they always file a SID, unless there's no actual route in the SID (Ex. Climb heading 050 radar vectors to XYZ) in that case they only file XYZ as the first waypoint on the flight plan.
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Last edited by nightbird on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#8 Post by Jet Jockey » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:27 pm

I see SIDs and STARS filed on most of our flight plans, especially when they are complicated like in Europe.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#9 Post by 16SidedOffice » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:23 pm

I can't say for other regions, but in the Vancouver FIR the IFR flightplanning unit will remove the sid if it's filed in a flightplan.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#10 Post by Zaibatsu » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:21 pm

Nope

Save yourself the trouble.

Even the initial portion of preferred routings are often ignored in a radar environment, but are required in case of comm failure.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#11 Post by Pratt X 3 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:58 pm

SID (RNAV) - File it.

SID (Vector) - Don't file it.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#12 Post by Cessna 180 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:34 pm

I generally use Foreflight to file and I usually have trouble with it accepting the SID in the route, so I don't file it.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#13 Post by Prodriver » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:54 pm

Cessna 180 wrote:I generally use Foreflight to file and I usually have trouble with it accepting the SID in the route, so I don't file it.
+1 I also just use there preferred routes that are usually listed. Works well.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#14 Post by Cessna 180 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:07 am

Prodriver wrote:
Cessna 180 wrote:I generally use Foreflight to file and I usually have trouble with it accepting the SID in the route, so I don't file it.
+1 I also just use there preferred routes that are usually listed. Works well.
Ya I've rarely filed what the CFS says unless its transiting Toronto or Montreal. Usually whatever flightplan.com says or Foreflight. I got a reroute only once but it's nice Foreflight emails it to you before so you know what to expect.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#15 Post by Prodriver » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:08 pm

Sorry I meant Fltplan.com, as it has better route listings. I filed a trip to the US, didn't go, but Nav Canada called to ask why I didn't file the preferred route. So they do watch.
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Re: File SID in Flight Plan or Not?

#16 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:28 am

I don't think the flight planning department at the ACC really cares as long as you file the intermediate waypoints on or close to the preferred and not direct to destination.

For those of us with routing software, in the custom routing section it gives you an option to select SIDs and STARs, particularly handy when you are non-rnav in certain countries but need to fly a STAR.

Helps put a light bulb above ATCs head when they key the mic to ask you to fly the RNAV STAR but you are non-rnav in certain countries.

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