Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

[Cat Driver]

Yes for sure the last thing on your mind when dealing with an in flight emergency is the passengers, and when flying with everything proceeding as normal I can't remember thinking I have to get these passengers safely on the ground.

[rxl]

That is for sure, they never miss identifying phoneys and exposing us for what we are.

But on a purely professional level I still have that old hope that there are still enough pilots reading these forums who actually do have pride in being the best they can when flying and know the learning process never ends until you quit flying.

Cat, I'm about 2 years away from retirement and I'm here to tell you that the vast majority of pilots that I have the pleasure to fly with still take pride in what they do. They are smart, well motivated and do a great job.
Poor attitudes as evidenced by some of the posters here are thankfully few and far between.
Single minded cost cutting "managers" who seemingly could care less about the quality of the product they peddle have, on the other hand, become all too prevalent.

[cap41]

There is risk in any job.However we are compensated, and choose that career knowing the possibly outcome. Same as Cops, firefighters etc.

I may sound selfish. But, however I prefer to think as it as realistic. I don't want to see anybody hurt in anyway in any industry. I was responding to a post where someone was saying and I'm paraphrasing I am responsible for more live than any other non medical profession. I am simply pointed out that may not be accurate. Train conductor for VIA probably has more people on his train that he is responsible for. I am not saying a pilot does not have any responsibility. They have tremendous amount. However i reiterate when it comes to an emergency self preservation IS the thing that matters most. The people in the back of the plane are an after thought. The focus is on fixing the problem, and self preservation....thats it. there is not person on the board that would choose to lay down their life in order for me to live another day. You actually owe to your family not to do it.

[GyvAir]

https://youtu.be/l2iIq3zaP6k?t=87

[TheStig]

This is always the biggest crock.

Your a liar.

Cap41, the issue of pilot pay seems to upset you, can you give us a quick snapshot of why? I'd like to address this issue, but I'd like to know what sort of aviation experience you have to know my audience.

[co-joe]

https://youtu.be/l2iIq3zaP6k?t=87

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.

[cap41]

This is always the biggest crock.

Your a liar.

Cap41, the issue of pilot pay seems to upset you, can you give us a quick snapshot of why? I'd like to address this issue, but I'd like to know what sort of aviation experience you have to know my audience.

Pay is not an issue at all. I hope everyone can make what they want. My beef is with people bitching about it. If you don't like working conditions, or feel your underpaid. Simply move on. It would be nice to see regional folks getting 100K. but that is not reality. We think only a select few can do our jobs. However there are many of thousands of people able to do it.

I did not read back, however I think when i said the biggest crock, it was referencing the responsibility of passengers. Also, some context need to be inserted into the selective quotes you have chosen. The quote "your a liar" was in context to a hypothetical question. The question was as a pilot you have to choose between you living, or one of your passengers. I said if you would lay down your life for someone you don't know (passenger) you a liar.

The only thing that I find disturbing is "some" pilots sense of entitlement. I should have more money, i should have better living conditions, etc etc...You choose this career!! chose another "IF" things are so bad.

[TheStig]

My beef is with people bitching about it. If you don't like working conditions, or feel your underpaid. Simply move on. It would be nice to see regional folks getting 100K. but that is not reality. We think only a select few can do our jobs. However there are many of thousands of people able to do it.

The only thing that I find disturbing is "some" pilots sense of entitlement. I should have more money, i should have better living conditions, etc etc...You choose this career!! chose another "IF" things are so bad.

There I go with the selective quoting again. For starters, people feeling entitled to more pay than what they earn covers pretty much every job, on earth, ever. Pilots, for reasons I've never figured out, do spend a lot of time talking about their pay. So I suppose, the more time a certain group spends talking about what they feel they're entitled to, the more entitled they seem...

Rightly or wrongly, one reason pilots feel entitled to certain remuneration is certainly due to a multi-generational history of certain salary expectations that date back to the origins of formula (Weight/speed/rank) pay, while deregulation saw industry wide formula rates rates disappear they still provide the basis of most legacy carriers pay tables. When non-legacy carriers (WestJet, Jet Blue) negotiate their pilot pay they look industry wide at a number of pilot pay scales and in a way piggy back on formula pay.

I do not agree with your notion that if you don't like you're working conditions you should quit. When I flew for a 703 carrier I negotiated my pay with my boss, when I felt my experience and industry standards entitled me to a raise I renegotiated a raise, should I have quit instead? Now my wages are negotiated on my behalf and I get to vote on changes to those wages and working conditions. When airlines run into financial trouble employees make concessions, when the airline is profitable are they not entitled to see wage improvements? There employers ability to pay industry leading wages is often cited as the reason FedEx, UPS and Southwest has industry leading pay.

I also disagree with the notion that there are thousands of people able to be airline pilots. Sure if I quit, my employer could quite easily fill my position, but if any airlines pilots were to illegally withdraw their services overnight I'd be willing to bet that carrier would be bankrupt before it was able to resume regular service, maybe that's why some pilots feel an elevated sense of importance.

However, I think it is worth mentioning that I don't think everyone can be a pilot. For starters there is a financial barrier many cannot overcome to obtain their CPL and MIFR but beyond that flying seems to weed out those who aren't focused, responsible and reliable employees. While others simply do not have the ability to operate simple aircraft and wash out early on. Not to say pilot are superior to anyone else, or have some super human skill set but there is something there that's worth not totally discounting.

[cap41]

Your bang on! your salary is not what your worth, but what you can negotiate. Im not discounting pilots or training. But everyone is completely replaceable. True a withdrawal of service would be a problem....people still need training.