Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

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cap41
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by cap41 »

FICU wrote:We are paid based on having the responsibility of lives sitting behinds us... generally, the more lives in the back the more money you make. Non medical professionals don't have the responsibility we do.
This is always the biggest crock.

A bus driver, subway driver, train driver all have the same "same" responsibility. The guy clipping people on, on edge walk (CN tower) is resposibile for lives. Probably more in a day than most pilots. We can look all over for people with responsibility for others lives.

Responsibility is a little misleading in the aviation field. The truth is, its an overwhelming desire of self preservation. I mean really when things go wrong on the airplane. Are you thinking oh my god i have 200 passengers? Or, are you thinking how am i going to land safely to survive ?

Survival instinct is 10 x stronger than responsibility,

Pleas don't use a line about being responsible for the people in the back. When shit hits the fan its all about self preservation.

Here is a tough but real world question. kinda Sophie's choice. Your flying along responsible for your passengers, you have an emergency. You are forced to land in a field. Just prior to touch down some almighty force gives you the option. You survive the landing and go home and see your family. But, to survive 1 passenger does not make it..Or the roles are reversed. What do you choose...If you say "i die" so passenger can live. Your a liar.
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True North
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by True North »

cap41 wrote:
FICU wrote:We are paid based on having the responsibility of lives sitting behinds us... generally, the more lives in the back the more money you make. Non medical professionals don't have the responsibility we do.
This is always the biggest crock.

A bus driver, subway driver, train driver all have the same "same" responsibility. The guy clipping people on, on edge walk (CN tower) is resposibile for lives. Probably more in a day than most pilots. We can look all over for people with responsibility for others lives.

Responsibility is a little misleading in the aviation field. The truth is, its an overwhelming desire of self preservation. I mean really when things go wrong on the airplane. Are you thinking oh my god i have 200 passengers? Or, are you thinking how am i going to land safely to survive ?

Survival instinct is 10 x stronger than responsibility,

Pleas don't use a line about being responsible for the people in the back. When shit hits the fan its all about self preservation.

Here is a tough but real world question. kinda Sophie's choice. Your flying along responsible for your passengers, you have an emergency. You are forced to land in a field. Just prior to touch down some almighty force gives you the option. You survive the landing and go home and see your family. But, to survive 1 passenger does not make it..Or the roles are reversed. What do you choose...If you say "i die" so passenger can live. Your a liar.
From the mouth of one who obviously has no clue. :roll:
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pei
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by pei »

Sorry True North, but cap41 is right on.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Cat Driver »

I do not recall ever thinking about my passengers when I had emergencies while flying....no, try as hard as I can I can't remember even one time.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Ypilot »

CAT, pretty sure you would fail a TC exam today, 60 years ago and today, not the same.

Anyway, nice thread drift... :mrgreen:

This happens the same day ALPA makes an annoncement about WJ seeking representation with ALPA.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Cat Driver »

CAT, pretty sure you would fail a TC exam today, 60 years ago and today, not the same.
Thanks for your observation on my career Ypilot I assume you think I have become senile since I retired?

Never mind sixty years ago lets go back to 2005 when I retired.

At that time I held a fixed wing ATP in Canada Land and Sea and also the same licenses valid in the USA, Australia, and Europe.

I also have a Canadian Commercial Pilot Helicopter License.

I also have a FAA Commercial Gyroplane Pilot License.

I also have an unrestricted Air Display Authority valid fo all of Europe for flying for pay in the air show business.

All of those licenses required me to write exams and I never failed even one.

But you may be correct I just don't quite make the grade to pass TC exam.

By the way how many foreign licenses do you have?
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Ypilot »

Cat Driver wrote:
CAT, pretty sure you would fail a TC exam today, 60 years ago and today, not the same.
Thanks for your observation on my career Ypilot I assume you think I have become senile since I retired?

Never mind sixty years ago lets go back to 2005 when I retired.

At that time I held a fixed wing ATP in Canada Land and Sea and also the same licenses valid in the USA, Australia, and Europe.

I also have a Canadian Commercial Pilot Helicopter License.

I also have a FAA Commercial Gyroplane Pilot License.

I also have an unrestricted Air Display Authority valid fo all of Europe for flying for pay in the air show business.

All of those licenses required me to write exams and I never failed even one.

But you may be correct I just don't quite make the grade to pass TC exam.

By the way how many foreign licenses do you have?
This is something I never could figure out, the education requirement to be a pilot is no more than being able to read and write.
Seriously? I hate to brake it to you but this is 2017, it takes a little more than reading and writting skills to pass exams.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Cat Driver »

Seriously? I hate to brake it to you but this is 2017, it takes a little more than reading and writting skills to pass exams.
Yes it does, you have to study the material the exams are based on to the point you can answer the questions correctly.

So tell me just what has changed since I wrote my last exam in the early 2000's .

Do you now have to show a certificate of education from a high school or college or university?

The last flight I did I spent around fifteen minutes typing the route from Bagrum Turkey to Amsterdam into the FMS of a 767-300ER, now you don't have to type it, is that harder and does that require a more skilled person to fly the newer machines?

Once again, exactly when did the exams get so difficult you have to show proof of education outside of flight school?
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Cat Driver »

Speaking of the difficulty or simplicity of writing TC exams Ypilot, when I wrote the Canadian ATPL in the mid sixties the exam was not multiple choice like you write today which gives you a chance to just pick what looks good and maybe get it correct.

We had to write the answers by hand and the answers were marked by an inspector to determine if you really did know the subject....unlike today where you have four canned answers and you can just guess when you don't know.

But of course I am sure you are far more intelligent and know more that us older retired guys, and your flying experience is way, way more than we have.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Ypilot »

Cat Driver wrote:
Seriously? I hate to brake it to you but this is 2017, it takes a little more than reading and writting skills to pass exams.
Yes it does, you have to study the material the exams are based on to the point you can answer the questions correctly.
Same for doctors, lawyer and so on.
So tell me just what has changed since I wrote my last exam in the early 2000's .
Believe it or not it changed.
Do you now have to show a certificate of education from a high school or college or university?
At AC yes.
The last flight I did I spent around fifteen minutes typing the route from Bagrum Turkey to Amsterdam into the FMS of a 767-300ER, now you don't have to type it, is that harder and does that require a more skilled person to fly the newer machines?
Any monkey can push button and hope for the best, it sucks when the shit hits the fan and you have to rely on operational knowledge, system knowledge, flying skills and so on. Don't play dumb, this job is not for everyone.

PS: I still type my routes in my FMS.
Once again, exactly when did the exams get so difficult you have to show proof of education outside of flight school?
Proof of education, you mean read and write?

Enjoy your rest of the day, gone flying.
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Last edited by Ypilot on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by infiniteregulus »

Cat's out of the bag!
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Cat Driver »

Speaking of the difficulty or simplicity of writing TC exams Ypilot, when I wrote the Canadian ATPL in the mid sixties the exam was not multiple choice like you write today which gives you a chance to just pick what looks good and maybe get it correct.

We had to write the answers by hand and the answers were marked by an inspector to determine if you really did know the subject....unlike today where you have four canned answers and you can just guess when you don't know.
You did not comment on this part Ypilot.

Do you think multiple choice exams are harder than having to write the answers to the questions?
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by FICU »

pei wrote:Sorry True North, but cap41 is right on.
Not counting corporate...
Using Captains as the example...

Generally...

704 make more than 703
705 make more than 704
Widebody make more than narrow body
A380 make more than widebody

Still think it's not about the number of seats?
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by flyzam »

cap41 wrote:
FICU wrote: Are you thinking oh my god i have 200 passengers? Or, are you thinking how am i going to land safely to survive ?

Survival instinct is 10 x stronger than responsibility,
The difference between your examples and being a pilot is that any of the others and even the bus driver is only ever responsible for only one life or a few more at a time.

A pilot can make a mistake or deal with an emergency and has over 200 lives at stake at once. Yes that is a big responsibility.

Secondly, as having an engine failure and possibility not being able to make the airport over high terrain, strangely enough and surprising me most of all, my only thought that people were going to die and that it was my job to ensure that the minimum people did die. In my head, at the front of the plane, I accepted I was almost certainly going to die.

you might surprise yourself on how much we care more about others than ourselves - I certainly was.

I hope you never see that, and if you do, I hope that you don't have such selfish thoughts about the world as you profess. Do not base other peoples interactions with the world from your own perspectives
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by FICU »

I didn't write that flyzam ... quotes misplaced

Oh ya... my thoughts aren't about saving my crew, myself, or the pax... I don't want to bend metal or mar a beautiful livery. ;) ;) nudge nudge.
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Last edited by FICU on Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by flyzam »

Cat Driver wrote:
CAT, pretty sure you would fail a TC exam today, 60 years ago and today, not the same.
Thanks for your observation on my career Ypilot I assume you think I have become senile since I retired?

Never mind sixty years ago lets go back to 2005 when I retired.

At that time I held a fixed wing ATP in Canada Land and Sea and also the same licenses valid in the USA, Australia, and Europe.

I also have a Canadian Commercial Pilot Helicopter License.

I also have a FAA Commercial Gyroplane Pilot License.

I also have an unrestricted Air Display Authority valid fo all of Europe for flying for pay in the air show business.

All of those licenses required me to write exams and I never failed even one.

But you may be correct I just don't quite make the grade to pass TC exam.

By the way how many foreign licenses do you have?
I can't resist. If you think that is a lot and you have already retired, you have little clue. Your bragging only makes you appear dull and boastful, as well as a little naive.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by flyzam »

FICU wrote:I didn't write that flyzam ... quotes misplaced
sorry about that - I lost connection when I was halfway through reply. must have then clicked the wrong reply button. Directed at cap41 it is.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by rxl »

flyzam wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:
CAT, pretty sure you would fail a TC exam today, 60 years ago and today, not the same.
I can't resist. If you think that is a lot and you have already retired, you have little clue. Your bragging only makes you appear dull and boastful, as well as a little naive.
Judging by the arrogance of your comments flyzam, I would say that you are the one with little clue.
Guys like Cat Driver and his generation of pilots are the ones who learned the important lessons the hard way and taught the rest of us how to fly.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by GyvAir »

Beautiful spring days such as this were not made for engaging in silly little pissing contests such as the above, were they?
It's evening over here now, so I guess I have time to comment and contribute to the full on hijacking of this thread.

Watching people try to make light of the experience and abilities of a pilot like Cat Driver is rather amusing, really. Even not knowing who is behind the above posts, I think it's a pretty good bet that they will retire having attained a mere shadow of the experience and hands on skills he has garnered over the years. The kind of experience he has, for the most part is just not going to be available to up and comers. Automation, career streamlining, increased restrictions and regulation among other factors are changing the skills required in aviation. Most pilots simply aren’t going to have the opportunity to fly in the wide variety of conditions, locations and aircraft types that someone like Cat Driver has had. And, a lot of those flight hours logged are going to look more and more like the hours logged by a remote drone operator. As will some of the licensing requirements.
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Re: Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

Post by Cat Driver »

One wonders just what level of IQ these posters have rxl when they read my answers to a question.

I was responding to writing exams and listed the licenses I was issued during my career and the different countries I received them in....this genius decided I was only bragging and completely ignored the obvious, to receive the licenses I had to write and pass the exams and flight tests.

Then again maybe that poster has yet to qualify for any pilot license, period. :mrgreen:

Here is a link to the airplane that was used in my written ATPL exam flyzam, compared to a modern jet airliner the Super Connie was really complex to fly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_ ... stellation
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