Clearance readbacks with SIDs

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A Pilot
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Clearance readbacks with SIDs

Post by A Pilot »

I've looked through the AIP and IPM but can't find the reference for a clearance readback with a SID only requiring the SID name and xponder code.

Anyone know where it's located?

Thanks....
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KAG
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Post by KAG »

I only read back the transponder code when on a SID.
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin »

As King Air Guy said, you only have to readback the transponder code and your callsign. This is only for airports served by a control tower though. If it is an FSS then you have to read back the whole thing. Have not found where this is in the book but i will keep looking.
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newguy
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Post by newguy »

read it all back man...make sure you got it right
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it'sme
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Post by it'sme »

Newguy,

You won't be very welcome at high density airports reading back a full clearence everytime! If your clearence includes a SID and the airport is tower controlled, as stated previously, you only require to read back the transponder code and callsign. Your clearence is the same as you filed so you certainly should know what it is and can get it right. If the clearence is not the same as filed then the contoller giving you the clearence will say so and remind you that he/she will need a full readback in that case.

Cheers :)
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Sasquash
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Post by Sasquash »

A pilot - check your PM
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cloudmind29
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Post by cloudmind29 »

CARS 602.31 (2) Except if requested to do so by an air traffic control unit, the pilot-in-command of an IFR aircraft is not required to read back the text of an air traffic control clearance pursuant to paragraph (1)(b)(i) where

(a) the air traffic control clearance is received on the ground by the pilot-in-command before departing from a controlled aerodrome in respect of which a standard instrument departure procedure is specified in the Canada Air Pilot; or

(b) the receipt of the air traffic control clearance is acknowledged by the pilot-in-command by electronic means.
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just another pilot
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Post by just another pilot »

Newguy. If your cleared the SID, brief the SID. That way you know you don't have it wrong. 8)
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CClub
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Post by CClub »

AIP RAC 6.1

" A clearance received by a pilot must be read back to the controller (CAR 602.31), except in certain circumstances. When the clearance is received on the ground, before departing a controlled aerodrome, and a SID is included in the clearance, the pilot only needs to acknowledge receipt of the clearance by repeating the aircraft call sign and the tronsponder code that was assigned. If there is an amendment to the altitude contained in the SID, that altitude shall also be read back."
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A Pilot
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Post by A Pilot »

Cloudmind and CClub,

Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for.


And here's a follow-up question for everyone... does FSS qualify as an 'air traffic control unit' thus making an aerodrome 'controlled' as per the CARs definition? What about an aerodrome served by an FSS through an RCO ?

Thanks again...
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just another pilot
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Post by just another pilot »

It's controlled airspace, not a control zone. This means no take off or landing clearances are given or required. If IFR flight planned, approach is given by center and departure clearance delivered by FSS. VFR pilots require radio contact with FSS for applicable traffic information for self spacing. IFR is separated from other IFR, and workload permitting, from known VFR. VFR is see and be seen. I think. :)
An RCO airport is like a FSS served airport. They can provide traffic information for known traffic. Obviously, the difference is they are not located there. Some require the dial up procedure to contact FSS located at another airport, servicing the one you're going into.
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Carl
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Post by Carl »

FPR in the clearance, then all u need to readback is the squawk code, otherwise, read the whole thing back cause obviously you know what you filed.....
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Post by DA900 »

A Pilot you will need to read back the whole clearance if your routing has been changed. Its also good practice to read back SID if there are more than one for your aircraft type.

In Calgary there is only one for jets and one for props. In Vancouver you can be given either Vancouver 3 or Richmond 8 for props because of your direction of travel or traffic.

IMHO
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twinpratts
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Post by twinpratts »

Most places with MF don't have a SID (to the best of my knowledge...)
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

Sorry twinpratts: LOTS of FSS/MF airports have SID's.
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Carl
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Post by Carl »

lilfsister speaks the truth. North Bay has a sid, it depends on how much traffic and if the mf has radar or not i would think, to issue a sid clearance. Correct me if i'm wrong. NOW WHERE'S MY BEER!
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A Pilot
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Post by A Pilot »

So now we've got the FSS/SID thing out of the way, what about my second question? Does FSS qualify as an 'air traffic control unit' ? Or is that title reserved for control towers and terminal/center/etc ?
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

I think the key word in your question is 'control'. FSS does not control.
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin »

Exactly. You will have to read back the full clearance when it comes from an FSS.
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