SUNWING

[gonnabeapilot]

So 169 Canadian are flying point to point in Europe and 80 Europeans are flying point to point in North America?

SOunds like Canada is getting the better end of the deal.

That previous individual is on my ignore list.

But from your reply, I can guess the misinformation he wrote.

These guys have a funny manner in which they count pilot exchanges.

100 foreign pilots come to Canada and each spend 6 months flying in Canada. That counts a 100 foreign pilots in Canada according to Sunwing,

Many Sunwing pilots do not want to spend all summer in Europe, and 50 are needed, for a period of 6 months. So they are told they need to deploy only 2 months, and three different groups of 50 are sent to Europe. So 150 went. But that is only the equivalent of 50 is they had deployed for the full 6 months as the Europeans do.

That is how these Sunwing guys count exchanges. They have done this many times. And they come here and try this B/S once again and veterans of AvCanada like Pelmet who should know better, falls for it.

The other thing they always try to obscure are those other foreign pilots who come here as Wet-Lease pilots.

Last winter, Sunwing brought in 80 foreign pilots as Temporary pilots (some of which were seasonal Captains at Sunwing), but in addition to those, they also brought in a number of Foreign Wet Lease pilots, so the number of Foreign pilots flying for Sunwing exceeded 100.

However, they only sent a limited number of Wet-Leases to Europe. You want to know the real number they sent to Europe, just count the aircraft: They send about 14 pilots per aircraft. So if they sent 5 aircraft to Europe on Wet-Lease, they had about 70 pilots over there. It they sent 4 aircraft, it was about 56 pilots and so forth.

The reason this discussion, which many seem like a thread drift to certain, is on this thread, is that many of those who apply to Sunwing will be turned away for the simple reason that Sunwing intends to hire a foreigner in your place. Many of them seasonal Captains who will be earning more tax free dollars working for Sunwing in six months than you earn in a whole year in Canada flying that RJ or that Embraer.

Think about it. Its your battle! Not mine. I have a job.

Just as an FYI, Sunwing currently has 10 aircraft in Europe (1xBFS, 1xDUB, 1xNWI, 1xLBA, 1xWAW, 1xLIL, 1xLYS & 3xAMS) with the contracts requiring 8.5 crews per aircraft (9 Captains and 8 FOs) so 17 pilots per aircraft.... Or 170 pilot positions. The only person who seems to be using a funny manner to count pilot exchanges is yourself.

[toelessjoe]

[/quote]Think about it. Its your battle! Not mine. I have a job.[/quote]

I don't. At least not a good one. You guys hiring Gilles?

- Toeless.

[aerosexual]

I guess I'm on the ignore list because I provide facts, not innuendos. The 169 positions are in fact full-term positions, start to finish. If I count the actual number of pilots deployed comprised of full-term and half-term, the number of pilots overseas this summer are 240. There are literally 240 pilots going overseas this summer for the deployments. It's unfortunate that Gilles would rather ignore facts and continue his tirade against Sunwing.

My beef with this is that when it comes to Air Transat, I and most of my colleagues are always supportive of them, because while they are Sunwing's most direct competition, it's a healthy competition. Air Transat has a good contract, and we continuously use them as a benchmark in negotiations. I also recognize Air Transat in having an excellent product, and they always treat us well when we fly with them. When Gilles started this tirade, he was going on and on about reciprocity, and that was a very fair argument at one point, and it was one that the pilot group was having with the company as well. Right now the balance is in favour of Canadian pilots, and it's still not good enough. Frankly, it stinks.

For those applying, don't let the politics get in the way. Both Sunwing and Air Transat offer excellent employment for pilots, and it's great to see that the industry is fairly mature at this point in Canada without having bottom feeders eroding away our stability. Good luck to everybody that applied, there is more hiring just around the corner.

Oh, and if you reply to my post, feel free to quote me so that Captain Hudicourt can get his facts straight.

[confusedalot]

bla bla bla.

take the job, or leave it. seems to me that it is not such a bad job. hudicourt types or whatever, if it suits you, just do it.

man, some people just do not appreciate how hard this world, and I am not talking about the aviation world, just so happens to be.

everyone has to live. so live.

[mbav8r]

I guess I'm on the ignore list because I provide facts, not innuendos. The 169 positions are in fact full-term positions, start to finish. If I count the actual number of pilots deployed comprised of full-term and half-term, the number of pilots overseas this summer are 240. There are literally 240 pilots going overseas this summer for the deployments. It's unfortunate that Gilles would rather ignore facts and continue his tirade against Sunwing.

My beef with this is that when it comes to Air Transat, I and most of my colleagues are always supportive of them, because while they are Sunwing's most direct competition, it's a healthy competition. Air Transat has a good contract, and we continuously use them as a benchmark in negotiations. I also recognize Air Transat in having an excellent product, and they always treat us well when we fly with them. When Gilles started this tirade, he was going on and on about reciprocity, and that was a very fair argument at one point, and it was one that the pilot group was having with the company as well. Right now the balance is in favour of Canadian pilots, and it's still not good enough. Frankly, it stinks.
For those applying, don't let the politics get in the way. Both Sunwing and Air Transat offer excellent employment for pilots, and it's great to see that the industry is fairly mature at this point in Canada without having bottom feeders eroding away our stability. Good luck to everybody that applied, there is more hiring just around the corner.

Oh, and if you reply to my post, feel free to quote me so that Captain Hudicourt can get his facts straight.

So if the above is correct that is great but can we agree that if left to their own devices unchecked, Sunwing has a tendency to pervert the rules to the disadvantage of Canadian pilots?
I can't speak for Gilles but I feel that his beef is with the FLVC, if Sunwing sent 10 wet leases and brought in 10 for our season, probably not going to hear too much from anyone. When Sunwing applies for 80 foreign pilots from one government department, there is nothing preventing them from also bringing in 10 wetleases in addition to these pilots from another government department.

confusedalot,
you live up to your handle, this discussion has been about the fact there would be more of these great jobs available if Sunwing wasn't hiring foreign pilots instead of Canadians.

[confusedalot]

Sunwing hires foreign pilots?

Fill yer boots buddy.

The thread started out inquiring about simple activity.

[ThatGuyHoldingShort]

Anyone get any call backs yet ? Still waiting for mine!
Any updates on the August ground school dates?

[aerosexual]

I guess I'm on the ignore list because I provide facts, not innuendos. The 169 positions are in fact full-term positions, start to finish. If I count the actual number of pilots deployed comprised of full-term and half-term, the number of pilots overseas this summer are 240. There are literally 240 pilots going overseas this summer for the deployments. It's unfortunate that Gilles would rather ignore facts and continue his tirade against Sunwing.

My beef with this is that when it comes to Air Transat, I and most of my colleagues are always supportive of them, because while they are Sunwing's most direct competition, it's a healthy competition. Air Transat has a good contract, and we continuously use them as a benchmark in negotiations. I also recognize Air Transat in having an excellent product, and they always treat us well when we fly with them. When Gilles started this tirade, he was going on and on about reciprocity, and that was a very fair argument at one point, and it was one that the pilot group was having with the company as well. Right now the balance is in favour of Canadian pilots, and it's still not good enough. Frankly, it stinks.
For those applying, don't let the politics get in the way. Both Sunwing and Air Transat offer excellent employment for pilots, and it's great to see that the industry is fairly mature at this point in Canada without having bottom feeders eroding away our stability. Good luck to everybody that applied, there is more hiring just around the corner.

Oh, and if you reply to my post, feel free to quote me so that Captain Hudicourt can get his facts straight.

So if the above is correct that is great but can we agree that if left to their own devices unchecked, Sunwing has a tendency to pervert the rules to the disadvantage of Canadian pilots?
I can't speak for Gilles but I feel that his beef is with the FLVC, if Sunwing sent 10 wet leases and brought in 10 for our season, probably not going to hear too much from anyone. When Sunwing applies for 80 foreign pilots from one government department, there is nothing preventing them from also bringing in 10 wetleases in addition to these pilots from another government department.

confusedalot,
you live up to your handle, this discussion has been about the fact there would be more of these great jobs available if Sunwing wasn't hiring foreign pilots instead of Canadians.

In fairness, Sunwing did bring in more foreign pilots for about three years or so in its history, but in the 11 or so years in which Sunwing has been operating, the other years have either been even and often favouring Canadians as it does now. I agree that when the numbers are skewed in favour of foreign pilots, we all including Sunwing pilots need to do what we can, and that's exactly what's happened. In the end, the company hasn't done anything that the government hasn't allowed it to do.

It is fair to say though that overall, bringing in foreign pilots has in fact increased the hiring of Canadians, and this year is a prime example. The only reason pilots have been hired this year, and in other years around this time for that matter is due to the need to cover the European deployments. 169 full-term positions (5 to 6 months total), broken down by captain and F/O's is excellent.

With regards to the wet-leases, the way it is right now is actually a win-win for Canadian pilots. I'd like to see zero wet-leases in Canada and 10 wet-leases in Europe. The reason is by incorporating "foreign pilots" into the Canadian roster, it allows oversight, they have to do their PPC's with Transport Canada approved (Sunwing) ACP's, and they follow our rules, etc. On the other hand, when we go over on wet-leases in Europe, we operate on our OC, while adhering to European rules of course. I'd hate to see that change in the name of semantics.

I have a couple of friends that had interviews, and they haven't heard anything. Sit tight and good luck!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You want facts ? Real Facts ?

Let a Sunwing insider post how many Sunwing AIRCRAFT deployed full time to Europe the last 3 summers.
That will give a pretty precise indication of how many pilots deployed (its roughly 14 pilots per aircraft)

Also please provide the registrations of the aircraft that deployed. I will find their deployments and return dates on the Web.

[ant_321]

You want facts ? Real Facts ?

Let a Sunwing insider post how many Sunwing AIRCRAFT deployed full time to Europe the last 3 summers.
That will give a pretty precise indication of how many pilots deployed (its roughly 14 pilots per aircraft)

Also please provide the registrations of the aircraft that deployed. I will find their deployments and return dates on the Web.

Gilles the info for this summer has been posted twice and you continue to ignore it. I don't have the numbers for the previous years but for this summer there are 10 aircraft deployed and my quick count comes up with 180 positions. The deployments are crewed roughly 18 pilots per aircraft with 10 aircraft deployed. I am sure you will find some reason to not believe these numbers since they aren't want you want to hear.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

If correct it's about time and it's very, very good news.
From 2006 to about 2015, Sunwing would deploy about 4 aircraft to Europe every summer with one summer around
2013 when 7 were deployed.
This, if true, is a record.

If Sunwing keeps this up and roughly the same numbers of foreigners come here in exchange, I will crawl back under my rock and remain there.

But I won't hold my breath.

[DareDevil]

I quit Sunwing last winter....its a decent place to work with some ok people. If your a single guy, your gonna have a lot of fun going back and forth to Europe in the summers, and flying south in the Winter! If you want to have a family, its a tough gig for ya being away often, sometimes for months. Better long term jobs out there for sure.

[dbob]

Lawdy Lawdy Lawdy! There sure be some knowledgeable people this thread! Any chance chance some of this knowledge pertains to if and when they're still conducting interviews?

- Toeless.

I do believe interviews finished last Friday.
If anyone has any interviews coming up this week please do correct me.

A PFO email went out yesterday, followed by a redaction and correction email to some people. Since they closed the job posting, it sent an automated one by mistake.

Any details on this blunder? Was is mistakenly sent to those who they intended to give offers or just a random few? Do you know if actual offers have gone out yet? Feel free to PM.

[ThatGuyHoldingShort]

Any replies to anyone from Sunwing yet to be put in the August / Sept ground schools???

[gonnabeapilot]

I know calls have gone out for the August 14th(ish) ground school but I'm not sure about anything beyond that.

[valleyboy]

and I heard from a buddy that he got a resume from a sunwing f/o looking for a Navajo job -- damn this industry gets stranger every day ---

[ant_321]

and I heard from a buddy that he got a resume from a sunwing f/o looking for a Navajo job -- damn this industry gets stranger every day ---

That must have been one awesome Navajo job.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

and I heard from a buddy that he got a resume from a sunwing f/o looking for a Navajo job -- damn this industry gets stranger every day ---

That must have been one awesome Navajo job.

Or a Sunwing cadet looking for PIC time!

[FAF]

and I heard from a buddy that he got a resume from a sunwing f/o looking for a Navajo job -- damn this industry gets stranger every day ---

That must have been one awesome Navajo job.

They pay 500

[jd832]

Any replies to anyone from Sunwing yet to be put in the August / Sept ground schools???

So far two classes of 10 with a total of 6 cadets and 20 Captain upgrades. No Foreign pilots flying C-Reg aircraft this Season. Foreign pilots will only fly 4 wet-leases aircraft. 2 in YUL and 2 in YOW. So far we've hired 62 pilots this year. 42 in April and May plus the additional 20 starting in the next two classes.