Confusedalot properly makes the point of an SMS for the likes of Air Canada being applied to a Mom & Pop being totally inappropriate .... and that's exactly what was behind my mention of an "SMS-like" program.
In the King Air example, a properly functioning reporting and analysis system would have at least examined why the fellow in the King Air thought and acted the way he or she did. Once a responsible manager has been made aware of the "fault" inside the company is (or should be) compelled to fix it or else sign on the dotted line that the risk and it's causes is considered to be acceptable in the future and chooses to do nothing to support the staff, buy support equipment, or modify operational procedures.
Again, SMS or an "SMS-like" program in an organization which is a self-aware, self-correcting/improving operation is a reporting system which provides information and an examination of the question of "why did it happen, and what will we do about it?" Besides just firing the people involved and bringing in another group of "who is next in line?" rampies to make the same errors due to a system that sets them up for failure in the fine old survival of the fittest fashion.
Scumbags with an SMS type program will always be scumbags that run "bottom feeder" operations with no incentive to change as long as there is cash flow and a continued supply of meat for the seat.
"Good operators" with proper leadership will use it as an overall operation improvement tool.
SSH
"Weak aviation oversight making skies less safe: Opinion"
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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single_swine_herder
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Re: "Weak aviation oversight making skies less safe: Opinion"
I did not receive a definitive answer to my earlier questions regarding the validation of SMS with small air carriers past and present, or under what authority are small operators governed to follow regulations. So I wrote Transport Canada and asked them the question, which was forwarded to their 'Technical Program Evaluation and Coordination Standards Branch'. This is their response.
"While Transport Canada has not published safety management system requirements for 703 operators, they are still subject to a number of other safety requirements for which TC verifies for compliance through inspections. TC verifies compliance through a number of inspection tools, including program validation inspections and process inspections. A program validation inspection looks at whether the enterprise has a system for maintaining ongoing compliance with the regulations relevant to their certificate through sampling. Another inspection tool we have is the safety management system assessment; TC would not do a SMS assessment of an enterprise that is not subject to SMS requirements, such as 703 operators."
My experience with 703 operations (at least since 2009 and on) has always been that the PVI follows the SMS format, so I would have to call BS! Even if the SMS paperwork points to a disaster about to happen, TC misses the potential of the disaster but gives full credit for having SMS paperwork in place, even though the integrity of the system is flawed for small air carriers in my opinion. SMS works for large air carriers because the have the finances to make it effective. Small air carriers often do not have the same financial resources (cash flow). Most major "findings" and "root cause analysis" with 703 operations will point to management and tight financial budgets as the root problem, but you can't print that!
"While Transport Canada has not published safety management system requirements for 703 operators, they are still subject to a number of other safety requirements for which TC verifies for compliance through inspections. TC verifies compliance through a number of inspection tools, including program validation inspections and process inspections. A program validation inspection looks at whether the enterprise has a system for maintaining ongoing compliance with the regulations relevant to their certificate through sampling. Another inspection tool we have is the safety management system assessment; TC would not do a SMS assessment of an enterprise that is not subject to SMS requirements, such as 703 operators."
My experience with 703 operations (at least since 2009 and on) has always been that the PVI follows the SMS format, so I would have to call BS! Even if the SMS paperwork points to a disaster about to happen, TC misses the potential of the disaster but gives full credit for having SMS paperwork in place, even though the integrity of the system is flawed for small air carriers in my opinion. SMS works for large air carriers because the have the finances to make it effective. Small air carriers often do not have the same financial resources (cash flow). Most major "findings" and "root cause analysis" with 703 operations will point to management and tight financial budgets as the root problem, but you can't print that!
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confusedalot
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Re: "Weak aviation oversight making skies less safe: Opinion"
Okay guys, I was a regional operations and certification guy who ended up in the place because of a rather high profile bankruptcy in 2001-2002. So disclosure is done. I left in 2007. I played the real game in the real world until 2015-2016 when I was forced to retire.
Nephilim, your perceptions of oversight are one hundred percent accurate. Our marching orders were to only look at SMS or SMS type situations, so that means that it was not possible to process anything in the system, except validity of the paperwork. Sad I know. Worse still, the previous system was to do audits, which only look at paperwork for the most part. Paperwork and real life are two different things.
single_swine_herder; absolutely right about the operators who do it right and the ones who could not care less. SMS will never fix this sort of issue.
It is a bureaucracy that does not have the capacity to think nor any capacity to provide real remedies. TC ranks low on the politicians scale, so can not forecast any improvement in the situation.
Cheers,
Nephilim, your perceptions of oversight are one hundred percent accurate. Our marching orders were to only look at SMS or SMS type situations, so that means that it was not possible to process anything in the system, except validity of the paperwork. Sad I know. Worse still, the previous system was to do audits, which only look at paperwork for the most part. Paperwork and real life are two different things.
single_swine_herder; absolutely right about the operators who do it right and the ones who could not care less. SMS will never fix this sort of issue.
It is a bureaucracy that does not have the capacity to think nor any capacity to provide real remedies. TC ranks low on the politicians scale, so can not forecast any improvement in the situation.
Cheers,
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
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single_swine_herder
- Rank 7
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- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:35 pm
Re: "Weak aviation oversight making skies less safe: Opinion"
Yes, Inspectors that had been conducting PPCs and seeing how a company actually functioned were chained to their desks, all enforcement files or investigations were closed. Inspectors were "disencouraged" to even phone an Ops Mgr to correct a typo in an Ops Manual amendment that was submitted.
It wasn't the content of the paperwork that was checked and seeing what indicators pointed to whatever may be will be but it was just that the elements of the process were present.
SSH
It wasn't the content of the paperwork that was checked and seeing what indicators pointed to whatever may be will be but it was just that the elements of the process were present.
SSH
Re: "Weak aviation oversight making skies less safe: Opinion"
Seems to me that Transport Canada walked off the edge of this one! Leaves them wide open to claims of negligence in the case of protecting employees and consumers alike, in small category aircraft operations across Canada.
Surprised there has not been dozens of law suits against TC and their handling of SMS and actual aviation safety. Maybe class action lawsuit for negligence? Isn't that how Omar Khadr won his 10.5 million, and apology, from government negligence?
Surprised there has not been dozens of law suits against TC and their handling of SMS and actual aviation safety. Maybe class action lawsuit for negligence? Isn't that how Omar Khadr won his 10.5 million, and apology, from government negligence?
Re: "Weak aviation oversight making skies less safe: Opinion"
+1Nephilim wrote:Seems to me that Transport Canada walked off the edge of this one! Leaves them wide open to claims of negligence in the case of protecting employees and consumers alike, in small category aircraft operations across Canada.
Surprised there has not been dozens of law suits against TC and their handling of SMS and actual aviation safety. Maybe class action lawsuit for negligence? Isn't that how Omar Khadr won his 10.5 million, and apology, from government negligence?
SMS for owner flown, no employees is a complete was of time and I have not seen one benefit for owner flow AC. The only winner is the US training schools, and there mechanics. There have been quite a number of AC that have been N reg and leased back.
IMHO the reason that the accident rate has came down, is not from this toilet paper and red tape exercise. It's improved equipment ie: (Autopilots / SVS) and RNAV approaches which are pretty prevalent now days.
Red tape and political correctness is choking the life and business community in this country to death, we have to stop it and change course to attract investment and capital back.
"I need a time machine"
