I hate to pour vinegar into the wine, but it looks to me in the video like the lights weren't visual until the 5 bar lights were in sight, which only begin halfway down the approach lights that are themselves only about 2600 feet long. When they were sighted a 15 degree bank turn was intiated towards them, and when the runway itself became visual the aircraft was still to the left of the left hand side of the runway. I'm not a math whizz, but that to me is more than full scale deflection of the localizor which requires a go-around if you're still IFR.
Granted, this is a video and may not be representative of what the pilot actually saw out the window, but the bank towards the lights didn't begin until they were visible in the video. It also required a 10 degree bank turn almost in ground effect to correct back to runway heading. I admit I am not proficient in those kinds of airplanes and haven't been for a long time, so it may very well be that this was a safe visual segment after an instrument approach.
However instrument limits I do understand, and this was an ILS which is supposed to be a precision approach, not a non-precision approach. When you reach minimums you are supposed to be at the correct point in space and on the correct tragectory to complete a safe landing with minimal corrections which I would argue is not the case here.
I'm not judgeing, but I would encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.
My First ILS to minimums
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Chuck Finley
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
Rockie wrote: I'm not judgeing, but I would encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.
At least he put it on the RWY not before!
Re: My First ILS to minimums
So you disagree?. Finley wrote:Rockie wrote: I'm not judgeing, but I would encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.
At least he put it on the RWY not before!
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Cat Driver
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
I'm not judgeing, but I would just encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.
In defence of the poster he did say it was his " first " approach and landing at IFR limits so he has a good benchmark to start polishing his skills.
Once again I have looked at the video several more times and see nothing unsafe about the handling of the airplane and his corrections were quite smooth and effective.
Rockie do you not have spell check?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
Delete
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: My First ILS to minimums
I'm just offering advice so his second approach isn't also his last Cat, do you have anything to add to that? Also I've admitted I'm not proficient in those airplanes and it may have been safe, but not in compliance with IFR limits which are in place to ensure safety. If you wish to accept those kinds of errors in your own flying that's one thing, but it shouldn't be accepted by anybody else.Cat Driver wrote:I'm not judgeing, but I would just encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.
In defence of the poster he did say it was his " first " approach and landing at IFR limits so he has a good benchmark to start polishing his skills.
Once again I have looked at the video several more times and see nothing unsafe about the handling of the airplane and his corrections were quite smooth and effective.
Rockie do you not have spell check?
Do you really want to get into a tit for tat about spelling? I'd be happy to if you are...
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Cat Driver
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
And it was the runway, not a taxiway.At least he put it on the RWY not before!
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: My First ILS to minimums
Does every thread really need to be about Air Canada. I stopped reading the SFO thread about 5 pages ago because I got sick of the same back and forth. Please don't start it here
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confusedalot
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
Forgive me, it has been since 1985 that I have flown a light twin. I forgot. So, what is the ''blue line'', the single engine safe speed, on a cessna 310. Only asking since as I recall, this would be the regular approach speed.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
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Chuck Finley
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
av8ts wrote:Does every thread really need to be about Air Canada. I stopped reading the SFO thread about 5 pages ago because I got sick of the same back and forth. Please don't start it here
Actually you are the first one to bring up Air Canada.
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Chuck Finley
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
Where did I mention AC?av8ts wrote:No actually you were
Re: My First ILS to minimums
Don't be obtuse.. Finley wrote:Where did I mention AC?av8ts wrote:No actually you were
The last thing I want is for this to turn into anything but a discussion about the original subject. There seems to be an acceptance of this approach as normal, when in my opinion it is not. There was a significant correction required on a precision approach to make the runway. That's not supposed to be required on a precision approach. My purpose for interjecting is so neither the OP or anybody else would think this was a normal approach transition to a landing...it wasn't. More accuracy is demanded in instrument flying.. Finley wrote:At least he put it on the RWY not before!
It has nothing to do with AC so please let's leave that out of it.
Last edited by Rockie on Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chuck Finley
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
I'd like to buy an argument please.
Many times. Just like lots of other posters here.
Zaibatsu wrote:
How many of you have flown from the marker to DH by hand?
Many times. Just like lots of other posters here.
Re: My First ILS to minimums
This thread in all its elements absolutely perfectly encapsulates Avcanada!
Btw- big runway, small plane, stable approach, therefore lots of room to safely manoeuvre and correct the deviation laterally. In this situation, It's a nicely managed first ILS to minimums for sure. They'll just get better.
Btw- big runway, small plane, stable approach, therefore lots of room to safely manoeuvre and correct the deviation laterally. In this situation, It's a nicely managed first ILS to minimums for sure. They'll just get better.
Re: My First ILS to minimums
As soon as there was a link to a video I knew there would be a lot of perfect avcanadians criticizing the hell out of it. The video is from the back seat, no one knows what the view was from the front seat except the pilot. Yup, he didn't have it nailed. He did however shoot it to mins, get the runway in sight, correct for centre line, and safely land. If he was a professional there would be an argument for "stabilized approach", as far as I can tell he is hand bombing his own private plane.
I've actual seen worse approaches flown with a flight director and no AP in the 705 world. I've also seen guys with bags of experience go full scale in the simulator when you take away the AP, AT, and FD.
To the original poster, good job. You have room for improvement, with more experience you'll be breaking out and only needing to flare. As Cat has mentioned, you did a very smooth job getting it back on centre line once you broke out. Keep practicing.
I've actual seen worse approaches flown with a flight director and no AP in the 705 world. I've also seen guys with bags of experience go full scale in the simulator when you take away the AP, AT, and FD.
To the original poster, good job. You have room for improvement, with more experience you'll be breaking out and only needing to flare. As Cat has mentioned, you did a very smooth job getting it back on centre line once you broke out. Keep practicing.
Re: My First ILS to minimums
So there is room for improvement. I get it. But that has not been what has been beating me up over this approach.
What gets me is why I was there in the first place?
I am a private pilot. My own airplane. Very current (for a weekend warrior). I fly this plane close to 50 hrs/month. I have had my instrument rating for 22 months, and have had very conservative personal minimums... gradually getting lower as pages fill in my logbook.
I was feeling pressure to complete a flight in the most efficient manner, and the weather (and forecasts) were changing drastically throughout the morning. Pretty much everything within flying distance was as bad, or at risk of getting worse.
The best thing I could have done to make this approach better would have bee to wait a couple of hours before departing...
What gets me is why I was there in the first place?
I am a private pilot. My own airplane. Very current (for a weekend warrior). I fly this plane close to 50 hrs/month. I have had my instrument rating for 22 months, and have had very conservative personal minimums... gradually getting lower as pages fill in my logbook.
I was feeling pressure to complete a flight in the most efficient manner, and the weather (and forecasts) were changing drastically throughout the morning. Pretty much everything within flying distance was as bad, or at risk of getting worse.
The best thing I could have done to make this approach better would have bee to wait a couple of hours before departing...
Re: My First ILS to minimums
Happiness is a good alternate and lots of gas to get you there.dirtdr wrote:I was feeling pressure to complete a flight in the most efficient manner, and the weather (and forecasts) were changing drastically throughout the morning. Pretty much everything within flying distance was as bad, or at risk of getting worse.
The best thing I could have done to make this approach better would have bee to wait a couple of hours before departing...
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Black_Tusk
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Re: My First ILS to minimums
Since when does being a private pilot in your own aircraft defer the need for a stable approach?justwork wrote:If he was a professional there would be an argument for "stabilized approach", as far as I can tell he is hand bombing his own private plane.
