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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
customers


Exactly!

For what we pay directly or indirectly, we should have better service.

At the very least they should keep us entertained all of the time.

"Ayaaaah Caaaanada Two Four Three radaaaaah identified, clooooim seven thousaaaand!"



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Stu Pidasso wrote:
Who pays for that, certainly not Nav Canada. VR has been a joke this summer, slow down clearance 400 nm out, followed by "speed your discretion," followed by being the only Aircraft on approach.


So true it hurts.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Stu Pidasso wrote:
The CEO of Nav Canada earns 3.1 Million, along with a long list of overpaid executives.


3.1 million. US Fortune 500 territory, which Nav Can certainly isn't. Tell me anyone, why not 5 mill or more? Who decides these pay packages?

I read his bio. Former law partner, never has run a company before, so certainly qualified for 3 big ones a year.

Par for the course in old boys club, Canada. "Non profit" tends to mean except the CEO, board, senior execs......



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:09 pm 
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rookiepilot wrote:
Stu Pidasso wrote:
The CEO of Nav Canada earns 3.1 Million, along with a long list of overpaid executives.


3.1 million. US Fortune 500 territory, which Nav Can certainly isn't. Tell me anyone, why not 5 mill or more? Who decides these pay packages?

I read his bio. Former law partner, never has run a company before, so certainly qualified for 3 big ones a year.

Par for the course in old boys club, Canada. "Non profit" tends to mean except the CEO, board, senior execs......


Hey rookie.... don't fall off yer stool and laugh but I agree with you. I worked at NC and saw some of the operational decisions made on airspace restructuring that cost operators(who pay for NC services) a bundle. I can't speak of top echelon remuneration but........ you can fill in the blanks.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Old fella wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:
Stu Pidasso wrote:
The CEO of Nav Canada earns 3.1 Million, along with a long list of overpaid executives.


3.1 million. US Fortune 500 territory, which Nav Can certainly isn't. Tell me anyone, why not 5 mill or more? Who decides these pay packages?

I read his bio. Former law partner, never has run a company before, so certainly qualified for 3 big ones a year.

Par for the course in old boys club, Canada. "Non profit" tends to mean except the CEO, board, senior execs......


Hey rookie.... don't fall off yer stool and laugh but I agree with you. I worked at NC and saw some of the operational decisions made on airspace restructuring that cost operators(who pay for NC services) a bundle. I can't speak of top echelon remuneration but........ you can fill in the blanks.


Might like this one OF.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark ... ation.html

One day the gravy train will run out.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:29 pm 
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rookiepilot wrote:
Old fella wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:

3.1 million. US Fortune 500 territory, which Nav Can certainly isn't. Tell me anyone, why not 5 mill or more? Who decides these pay packages?

I read his bio. Former law partner, never has run a company before, so certainly qualified for 3 big ones a year.

Par for the course in old boys club, Canada. "Non profit" tends to mean except the CEO, board, senior execs......


Hey rookie.... don't fall off yer stool and laugh but I agree with you. I worked at NC and saw some of the operational decisions made on airspace restructuring that cost operators(who pay for NC services) a bundle. I can't speak of top echelon remuneration but........ you can fill in the blanks.


Might like this one OF.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark ... ation.html

One day the gravy train will run out.


Nav Can spends operators aka AC, WJ et all dollars not taxpayer bucks but years back they were free spending believe me but things may have tightened up since I left years back in 2005 who knows. The surcharge aka NC fees, airport security and operating costs, fuel surcharges you name it places us in a less competitive market. You as a business person knows that much better than I can pontificate



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:47 pm 
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OF,

This is a broader, deeper, entrenched Canadian problem. Evidence? How many great, world class companies have we created, that successfully compete on the world stage? Banks don't count.

Then look at the US, or Germany, Japan, Korea.

We just don't facilitate private enterprise very well.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Why don't banks count? Somehow (Trudeau senior perhaps) we have some of the most honest, most customer friendly, most secure banks in the world. Why not count them?


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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:13 pm 
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ahramin wrote:
Why don't banks count? Somehow (Trudeau senior perhaps) we have some of the most honest, most customer friendly, most secure banks in the world. Why not count them?


We have a great, secure banking system, that's absolutely true. But like many of our industries, they are comfortably entrenched semi monopolies who sparingly venture out of Canada, or not at all. They are not innovators, creators, nor are timber businesses, for example.

I'm referring to companies that sell worldwide -- Apple, Hyundai (shipping, not just cars -- they are massive) Siemens (Germany) Nokia, Caterpillar, Toyota, many others.

We have exactly one in technology I can think of who is kicking a-- and taking names, Shopify. But it's fairly young. We will see, but our LT record isn't good. (Valeant, Nortel, RIM). Flame outs.

We are still largely oil, rocks, trees, fishing, tourism. And housing.

Why do the best innovators leave (often for Silicon Valley?)

I think, perhaps greatly oversimplifying, it's a big country club here, an old boys club.

Look at Bombardier. No serious US investor would invest in it, because you don't get an equal vote. Multiple voting shares are common here, not in the US. They are an old boys club thing, protects the board. Horrible creation. Shouldn't be allowed. That's how you have CEO's here pulling in 25 million, cause no one has a vote on it. Stealing from the shareholders.

FWIW I live here but rarely invest in Canada. Most of my activity is US based. One issue, The insider trading here is tolerated, and rampant, and I don't appreciate being ripped off that way. They simply don't care.

These are my views, but I've heard them from others, too, many times.

Don't support it, guys. Take your retirement dollars, put it into US companies, that respect shareholder rights.

That being said, our banks are very solid.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:07 am 
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rookiepilot wrote:
OF,

This is a broader, deeper, entrenched Canadian problem. Evidence? How many great, world class companies have we created, that successfully compete on the world stage? Banks don't count.

Then look at the US, or Germany, Japan, Korea.

We just don't facilitate private enterprise very well.


Best example I can muster are the Provincial owned/run liquor agencies (outside of Alberta). Retail/distribution of liquor should be done by private enterprise period and full stop. We would get better price due competition and better interprovincial selections.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:13 am 
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rookiepilot wrote:
OF,
How many great, world class companies have we created, that successfully compete on the world stage?


Just for you, because this thread gone off on a tangent I'll name one; Air Canada.

-Completes with companies around the globe, even your beloved Cathay.
-30,000 (mostly unionized) Employees coast to Coast and around the world of every race and religion and orientation.
-Almost 400 aircraft generating nearly 15 billion in revenue and has grown tremendously for the past 8 years, expanding globally to allow easier access to global markets for Canadian businesses.
-Continues to invest in product improvements.

I do agree with your last post though, Canadians as a whole don't champion global competitors, maybe because we don't realize they are? We like to bitch and complain (especially online) about homegrown corporations and their employees who work hard everyday to shed tired old stereotypes.

As far as NavCanada is concerned, the staff shortages leading to delays are totally unacceptable, but the controllers they employ are second to none.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:33 pm 
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TheStig wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:
OF,
How many great, world class companies have we created, that successfully compete on the world stage?


Just for you, because this thread gone off on a tangent I'll name one; Air Canada.

-Completes with companies around the globe, even your beloved Cathay.
-30,000 (mostly unionized) Employees coast to Coast and around the world of every race and religion and orientation.
-Almost 400 aircraft generating nearly 15 billion in revenue and has grown tremendously for the past 8 years, expanding globally to allow easier access to global markets for Canadian businesses.
-Continues to invest in product improvements.

I do agree with your last post though, Canadians as a whole don't champion global competitors, maybe because we don't realize they are? We like to bitch and complain (especially online) about homegrown corporations and their employees who work hard everyday to shed tired old stereotypes.

As far as NavCanada is concerned, the staff shortages leading to delays are totally unacceptable, but the controllers they employ are second to none.


Uhmm, OK. Goes to my point.

AC is, to me, not unlike our cable and phone companies. Heavily protected and basically operating as a duopoly. No start up wants to take them on, (effectively) because AC or WJ will kill them off with predatory pricing. Perfectly legal in Canada. And of course deep pocketed foreign competition, isn't allowed. How hard did AC try to kill off Porter? That's not the mark of a "great" company. Let's not talk about federal aid over the years, either. Think we've hashed that out.

But hey, none of that is exclusive to AC. Thats Canada, the connected old boys club.

Name me one, non natural resource, dominant global competitor .....any industry ......dominant on the world stage, not in protected Canada. Nortel was closest, until they blew up.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:43 pm 
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I stopped replying to people in this thread because clearly it isn`t worth arguing over. You have your opinion and often they aren't fact based. I just wanted to add this. You guys say you would rather be vectored/hold than ground delays. Well I can 100% say that the airlines do not want this (maybe pilots do but not your management). It's been said time and time again that burning more fuel is never the best way to go. Also, these NOTAM's are not always due to staffing. It's easy to assume things about ATC, because at the end of the day all you hear is delays and our voice on the freq. Truth is there so many things that go on behind what the pilot can actually hear. Also, why is no one blaming airlines or local airport operators for delays? 90% of the time delays brought upon you guys has nothing to do with ATC but closed taxiways, runways, weather, airline scheduling etc...I don't mind taking the blame for mistakes I make but I have never went to work with the intent of delaying aircraft because I am too tired or I don't feel like working.

Also, people can say what they want about Nav Canada management, but they have really focused on training for the past 3 years and it is a main priority right now at Nav Canada. I can't remember the last time management was actually this easy to work with in finding solutions to resolve staffing issues.

The overtime protection is a myth, just stop.

I also don't know where you guys got the numbers where our CEO makes 3.1 million per year, but that's doubtful. I have seen the reports on management salaries and it is no where near that.



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:58 pm 
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It appears my own googling skills are somewhat lacking, though to include the value of long term incentives and his pension plan as annual income is a stretch.


Last edited by kevenv on Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Braun wrote:
I stopped replying to people in this thread because clearly it isn`t worth arguing over. You have your opinion and often they aren't fact based. I just wanted to add this. You guys say you would rather be vectored/hold than ground delays. Well I can 100% say that the airlines do not want this (maybe pilots do but not your management). It's been said time and time again that burning more fuel is never the best way to go. Also, these NOTAM's are not always due to staffing. It's easy to assume things about ATC, because at the end of the day all you hear is delays and our voice on the freq. Truth is there so many things that go on behind what the pilot can actually hear. Also, why is no one blaming airlines or local airport operators for delays? 90% of the time delays brought upon you guys has nothing to do with ATC but closed taxiways, runways, weather, airline scheduling etc...I don't mind taking the blame for mistakes I make but I have never went to work with the intent of delaying aircraft because I am too tired or I don't feel like working.

Also, people can say what they want about Nav Canada management, but they have really focused on training for the past 3 years and it is a main priority right now at Nav Canada. I can't remember the last time management was actually this easy to work with in finding solutions to resolve staffing issues.

The overtime protection is a myth, just stop.

I also don't know where you guys got the numbers where our CEO makes 3.1 million per year, but that's doubtful. I have seen the reports on management salaries and it is no where near that.


Page 79:

Certainly they aren't proud of it, burying within a giant report.
https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/about-us/Fi ... nal_EN.PDF



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 Post subject: Re: YVR Flow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:20 pm 
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rookiepilot wrote:
Braun wrote:
I stopped replying to people in this thread because clearly it isn`t worth arguing over. You have your opinion and often they aren't fact based. I just wanted to add this. You guys say you would rather be vectored/hold than ground delays. Well I can 100% say that the airlines do not want this (maybe pilots do but not your management). It's been said time and time again that burning more fuel is never the best way to go. Also, these NOTAM's are not always due to staffing. It's easy to assume things about ATC, because at the end of the day all you hear is delays and our voice on the freq. Truth is there so many things that go on behind what the pilot can actually hear. Also, why is no one blaming airlines or local airport operators for delays? 90% of the time delays brought upon you guys has nothing to do with ATC but closed taxiways, runways, weather, airline scheduling etc...I don't mind taking the blame for mistakes I make but I have never went to work with the intent of delaying aircraft because I am too tired or I don't feel like working.

Also, people can say what they want about Nav Canada management, but they have really focused on training for the past 3 years and it is a main priority right now at Nav Canada. I can't remember the last time management was actually this easy to work with in finding solutions to resolve staffing issues.

The overtime protection is a myth, just stop.

I also don't know where you guys got the numbers where our CEO makes 3.1 million per year, but that's doubtful. I have seen the reports on management salaries and it is no where near that.


It appears you're wrong then, about your own company. Page 79:

Certainly they aren't proud of it, burying within a giant report.
https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/about-us/Fi ... nal_EN.PDF
pension value is yearly compensation or over his time with Nav? I'm not an expert. I never said I was right, I said that's not the information I had BTW.



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