Jazz Hatters

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TheStig
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#26 Post by TheStig » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:48 am

Black_Tusk wrote:Until they give me a new one with new velvet, it's staying in my hand. I got a nasty rash last week when it was 30* outside and since then it's no longer being worn. The company and unisync are aware of the issue, and until ALPA presses them to fix the problem it will likely keep dragging on. Just like the pants.
From your own account here you joined Jazz fairly recently, maybe you can recall when you joined who told you to decide which parts of the uniform dress code you want to abide by? Did you tell your ALPA rep that you will not wear your uniform? Did they tell you that's okay?

By not properly wearing your uniform you're disrespecting the nearly 5000 others who do, and those who for 80 years have. To the others who have posted on this thread, sure, a more presentably dressed pilot isn't a 'better' pilot than the next guy to you, but to the public image matters. That 15 seconds you spend walking past all the passengers waiting to board your airplane is all they get to see of you, and then they put theirs in your hands, you can't tell me that the image you present isn't important.

The Air Canada brand pilot uniform, in my opinion, is one of the best in the industry. Meatservo, do you really think it's meant to bring pilots down a peg? If anything it elevates the pilots above every other employee, not to mention serve notice to everyone on board the aircraft who is in command. I did enjoy reading your post though FWIW.

A pilot with a beard still looks different to me because, it's still relatively new and still looks strange. However, I've seen some pilots with beard who look sharp, but others who look terrible. It's just like properly wearing the uniform, a big part of our brand as airline pilots is the image we present to the public while in the terminal.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#27 Post by Meatservo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:31 pm

Howdy Stig,

No as it happens I quite agree with you about the hat, I was commenting more on why some guys might not like to wear it than whether they should or not. Wearing hats and dressing formally for work in general is getting to be quite old-fashioned whatever industry you're in, and some people find the hat kind of pretentious simply because everyone else has dropped it. All things being equal, I kind of like hats and wish they would come back into fashion. I do not include baseball hats of course. They are too casual. But hey, nowadays you see military officers going to their office jobs in CADPAT "improved combat" uniforms instead of the tunic-and-pants suit they used to wear. Just great for waging office warfare I guess. They probably think it looks cool, and is undoubtedly more comfortable than a regular pants and shirt, but really, nobody gives a shit what they look like anymore. If you do, you're seen as taking yourself too seriously, which is not cool these days.

The beards, now. I used to think they were OK, until the latest generation of guys who were raised watching stupid American garbage like "duck dynasty" and "moonshiners" thought this was a good look for them. KLM pilots have always had short, trimmed beards (and hats) and have always looked dignified and well-groomed. There is absolutely no way, however, to look dignified and well-groomed sporting one of those pendulous pubic mats that grows down to your chest like a string mop, matted with some kind of stinky oil. And I'm sure if airlines who care what their pilots look like are to give some of them an inch in this regard, they will show up looking like some stinky character stumbled out of a cartoon about lumberjacks, fell into a pilot's uniform and accidentally made their way to the airport. It's the facial equivalent of a mullet. I mean hey, you gotta fight for the right to look how you want. I'm going to get my hair cut, but I want to wear no shirt and a pair of old coveralls held up by one strap. Then people will think I look weird because I DON'T have a beard.
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Air.Field
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#28 Post by Air.Field » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:21 pm

It's just a f'ing hat ffs. One would think and hope there are bigger issues in our profession that squabbling over a forsaken hat. Talk about princesses. If someone doesn't wear it, am I disrespected? Absolutely Not! What matters is the ability to fly a damn airplane, after all we are pilots, not damn models showing off the latest cheap chinese uniform. But go ahead, worry about hats rather than real issues of WACONs.

And FWIW, I wear the hat.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#29 Post by HansDietrich » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:23 pm

Comparing wearing your hat to "being unsafe" or "Not following SOPs" is ridiculous and idiotic. I've heard it in Ground School as well. I wonder if that was you who said it. How many pilots at Jazz break some sort of SOP on a daily basis? I bet you do too! When was the last time you taxied out of YYZ and made some idiotic comment that has nothing to do with the current task?

Anyway, I love the pilot uniform and I actually like wearing my hat (though, it's not comfortable). I don't care if a pilot doesn't wear his hat.

Best answer yet (I heard it in the Lounge at YYZ between two Jazz pilots):
- Where's your hat?
- At home.
- You gotta wear your hat... It's part of being professional
- When they start paying me "professionally", I'll start wearing my "professional hat"

***Edit for spelling***
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Last edited by HansDietrich on Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Jazz Hatters

#30 Post by '97 Tercel » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:06 pm

:lol:
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#31 Post by Black_Tusk » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:21 pm

TheStig wrote:
From your own account here you joined Jazz fairly recently, maybe you can recall when you joined who told you to decide which parts of the uniform dress code you want to abide by? Did you tell your ALPA rep that you will not wear your uniform? Did they tell you that's okay?
As a matter of fact I have spoken to ALPA about it. Not having a rash on my forehead is more important to me than walking past passengers with it on. For the record, I wore my last hat every day... everywhere I was supposed to. In the terminal, walk arounds etc. I am not against wearing a hat.. I think it looks sharp. It's just THIS specific hat is giving me skin issues. So yeah, I will wear it as little as possible. Fortunately it's starting to get a bit cooler out so my forehead isn't really sweating as much anymore so the rash has not been as much of an issue as of late. It still doesn't excuse the poor Chinese sweatshop quality our uniform has become.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#32 Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:42 am

ahramin wrote:In my experience it's quite the opposite. The ones who are worried about hats and sock colors are often the ones who are too smart - in their own minds - to follow the SOP and are invariably the ones who can't figure out basic CRM and crew building skills.

If I have a choice between the pilot with no hat and the pilot who thinks it's a good idea to run around telling everybody they should wear the hat, I know who I'd want flying my family.
:prayer:

& ditto to the pants
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#33 Post by ahramin » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:51 pm

Personally I think the hat looks stupid but I have to admit there are a few handsome men around here that look pretty sharp with it. I'm not one of them, but they do exist. And on the lady pilots ... awful. It really brings it home how stupid a hat like that is in the 21st century to see a woman wearing one. Even if the hats stay they should be exempt.

Today for the first time however, I spotted someone wearing full beard and hat. It looked ... just ... words fail me. The only thing I can think to say is ... no.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#34 Post by Moose47 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:15 pm

The Mad Hatter!
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HansDietrich
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#35 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:23 pm

ahramin wrote:Personally I think the hat looks stupid but I have to admit there are a few handsome men around here that look pretty sharp with it. I'm not one of them, but they do exist. And on the lady pilots ... awful. It really brings it home how stupid a hat like that is in the 21st century to see a woman wearing one. Even if the hats stay they should be exempt.

Today for the first time however, I spotted someone wearing full beard and hat. It looked ... just ... words fail me. The only thing I can think to say is ... no.
This guy looked all right:
Image
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#36 Post by North Shore » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:01 pm

..Until about 1/2 way across!
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#37 Post by RexKrammer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:38 pm

I don't mind a bit of Jazz, but I'm definitely more of a Rock/Metal kinda guy.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#38 Post by Meatservo » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:48 pm

Captain Smith had a trimmed, neat beard. Not one of the hillbilly ones currently fashionable with hipsters. It didn't roll down his lapels like a kinky pubic wave.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#39 Post by complexintentions » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:17 am

Soulless pedants, grimly determined to establish the blatantly obvious link between the wearing of an item of clothing to operational ability, exist in every company, and always have. I've found the best antidote is just to laugh at them.

Just remember to wear it on your linecheck. :mrgreen:

Captain to FO: "Where's your hat?"

FO: "It's in my bag."

CA: "Why aren't you wearing it?"

FO: "Oh, it's too small".

CA: "#$^&!! So why don't you get them to issue you a larger one?!?"

FO: "Then it won't fit in my bag".

Here all week, g'night, drive carefully.


(Say, is that a picture of a Qantas pilot?)

As for the bearded tools, when the day comes they need the O2 mask they'll figure out that while it may bolster their millennial hipster cred, it ain't the best thing if you want to remain conscious.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#40 Post by ahramin » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:19 am

Is there a single recorded case of a pilot becoming unconscious because of a beard?
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#41 Post by rigpiggy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:16 am

According to Georgian"you cant wear a beard because the oil from your face might catch on fire". Okay does that preclude the ladies from wearing lipstick? " crickets chirping". Back when I was there we had an engineer who savaged there "logic". He still had to shave.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#42 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:53 pm

ahramin wrote:Is there a single recorded case of a pilot becoming unconscious because of a beard?
No, because people haven't been allowed beards until now.

Does anybody really expect an oxygen mask to fit properly over a duck dynasty beard?
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#43 Post by skypirate88 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:59 pm

We aren't allowed a duck dynasty beard. Max length is 1/2 inch. Many airlines allow beards, I don't really see what the big deal is...
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#44 Post by Dockjock » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:38 am

The beard thing will pass when people realize they no longer look unique. I don't think it's a safety issue, it's more of a LOOK AT ME issue. Saw one guy with a baby little Salvador Dali mustache, clearly quite pleased with himself. Uh, no bud. Skulk away in shame you look ridiculous.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#45 Post by Beefitarian » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:24 pm

Is there a single recorded case of a pilot becoming unconscious because of a beard?
Doubt it. Has anyone here even used one? It's not like firemen who need them to protect themselves from poisonous fumes and smoke. Planes are pretty safe these days.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#46 Post by iamnomaverick » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:39 am

[quote="HansDietrich"

Best answer yet (I heard it in the Lounge at YYZ between two Jazz pilots):
- Where's your hat?
- At home.
- You gotta wear your hat... It's part of being professional
- When they start paying me "professionally", I'll start wearing my "professional hat"

***Edit for spelling***[/quote]

Had that FO been my FO there would have been an akward pause then me calling Crew Scheduling and the OCM to get a new FO... It is not about the hat cause I couldn't give a damn about why he does not want to wear his hat but I would be concerned about what else he doesn't think he doesn't get paid "professionally" to do ("gear down please", "They don't pay me professionally to do that"). Was it "profesisonal" of him to accept a job knowing that he doesn't agree on the pay? Is that person following SOPs and AOM or is he not getting paid enough to do that? Is he practicing his drills and refreshing his emergency procedures or does he think that he doesn't get paid enough to maybe have to save his own ass if it comes to it?

People complain everyday about every single thing pay/uniform/crew snacks/crew scheduling/parking. Guess what? Some of us actually like our jobs and want to enjoy ourselves while we do it! If you don't like something tell your union rep and do what the company asked of you when you got hired or just do us all a favor and QUIT!

-You don't like that pay? Tell you rep or vote with your feet.
-You don't like the uniform? Tell you rep and if it is a health concern then I am sure no one will blame you for not complying while they work on a solution.
-You don't like the crew snack? IT IS FREE! Leave it and one of the other crew members may want it.
-Crew scheduling ? Go wear their shoes for a week and see how you like putting out fires 24/7 and get no thanks in return.
-Parking? What is wrong with a short 15 min walk before you park your behind for the next 10-14 hours?

Is this place perfect? NO! But it still is a good place to work and we can make it better. Either accept it, be part of the solution by contacting your union or becoming part of it or walk to what maybe a greener pasture for you. but for heavens sake don't complain to me about your 50% paycut to come here, no one forced you to come here and no one is forcing you to stay now!
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Last edited by iamnomaverick on Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jazz Hatters

#47 Post by Oxi » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:45 pm

But what about the placement of the garbage bag in the cockpit?
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#48 Post by Liftdump » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:50 am

Had you have got rid of YOUR FO over a hat.
Had I been a paying passenger on YOUR PLANE.
Now listen to how STUPID you sound.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#49 Post by iamnomaverick » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:59 am

Liftdump wrote:Had you have got rid of YOUR FO over a hat.
Had I been a paying passenger on YOUR PLANE.
Now listen to how STUPID you sound.
No not over a hat, sounds like you have a reading problem though cause I clearly said " I couldn't give a damn about why he does not want to wear his hat". If you don't want to wear the hat at least come up with a proper excuse, not that you are not being paid "professionally" to wear a hat. Now that is stupid.

EDIT:
Also would you be willing to get on a plane were one of the pilots doesn't think he/she should do their job to a professional level?? In this profession we play for keeps. We have people trusting us with their lives so if you think you are not being paid as a professional I suggest you change companies/careers and go get what you think you are worth.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

#50 Post by Air.Field » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:24 am

I think most FOs feel they aren't being paid professionally, and that would be correct. Does that mean you're not going to fly with any FO? Does that mean they don't take flying the plane professionally? Especially over a hat? Have you seen anyone fly unprofessionally? Or refuse to put the gear down? I think you are obviously reaching for something that is not there.
If you think the guy next to you deserves to get paid 36k a year, that's your opinion, easy to think that when you comfortably make over 100k more. The majority think it's too low, again everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's great you love your job, but the job isn't for everyone. For most now a days it's the stepping stone to AC. If someone wants to be non compliant with uniform, sop or whatever, then talk to them, if no response send the CP a email and let mgmt deal with it. But to think anyone at Jazz is unprofessional... I certainly haven't seen it, and would fly on a Jazz crewed plane any day.
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