Give them nothing

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altiplano
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by altiplano »

I'll support the rights of labour.

What we have today is built on the Sacrifices and Solidarity of Organized Labour.

You are naive if you think living wages, benefits, reasonable work schedules, safety in the workplace and other things we take for granted would be here if not for actions like these in the past.

Is it an inconvenience?

Maybe.

But in a society today with every convenience imaginable, it's a small price and a reminder of what we are built on.
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altiplano
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by altiplano »

looking out for Number One.
I would say they are looking out for not just #1, but the people next to them now and the people that will come after them.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by rookiepilot »

complexintentions wrote:
Now, taking "desperate measures" -- an illegal act then is OK? Where does that line stop? Desperate why? No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. You see, that isn't any member of the public's call, to decide when things are "desperate" enough to take illegal action. You don't have that right.
lol

Kind of funny. You may backtrack now, but in the Air Transat YOW thread, there was plenty of talk about it being up to the passengers to decide when things are desperate enough to take illegal action (i.e. the blowing of a slide}. No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. That was what we were told.

Yet now we tut tut tut about workers doing just that? They're just doing what some of the AT pax did - looking out for Number One.

For those whining about being inconvenienced, I'm not sure you grasp the concept of leverage.
LOL.

No where once have I advocated blowing a slide on any aircraft in any thread.

And for others this thread is nothing to do with Swissports wages. It's about preserving the rule of law.

I support that concept in all instances.

This isn't about inconvenience. Blocking a highway is an illegal act, which caused people to walk on a highway ---- a dangerous situation. Period. Illegal is illegal, people.

You don't get to choose what illegal acts are ok and those that aren't cause you "think" it's justifiable.

This wasn't random, spontaneous, either. This union called in hundreds of other union members from locals totally uninvolved in this dispute. This was organized far in advance.

Why aren't there charges?
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JBI
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by JBI »

rookiepilot wrote:
Blocking a highway is an illegal act, which caused people to walk on a highway ---- a dangerous situation. Period. Illegal is illegal, people.
Did they actually block the highway or just the roadway between terminals? There is a difference. One is illegal, one is not.
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JayVee
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by JayVee »

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
JBI wrote:Have the striking workers actually done anything that is "Illegal"? Annoying, yes. Not all that strategic - you bet. But illegal - I've not seen anything to suggest that any of their actions have been illegal.
So if stood on the road and blocked traffic on any street in Toronto I wouldn't get arrested and charged?
Depends if you're wearing your wingsuit and cape...
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Oldguystrtn2fly
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by Oldguystrtn2fly »

I can't imagine paying someone more than minimum wage to handle baggage. It seems like outside of being mildly physical, one would need no training,education or expertise of any kind that would warrant a premium. Quite generous of the company really. They must believe in karma.
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altiplano
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by altiplano »

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:I can't imagine paying someone more than minimum wage to handle baggage.
Minimum wage to push back multimillion dollar aircraft too?

I don't know what these guys are seeking, but they have the right to try.
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rxl
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by rxl »

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:I can't imagine paying someone more than minimum wage to handle baggage. It seems like outside of being mildly physical, one would need no training,education or expertise of any kind that would warrant a premium. Quite generous of the company really. They must believe in karma.
These are the people who are responsible for the safe loading and securing of baggage and freight including hazardous materials onto YOUR airline flight. They service a number of different types of aircraft each of which has its own characteristics and critical procedures for ground handling. They must ensure that your flight is properly loaded for balance and that no compartment is overloaded. They must ensure that the loading is properly documented as presented to the pilots.
They operate specialized heavy equipment to load and unload your flight, to push it back from the gate and to tow it when required. As an example, loaded for departure an A380 Airbus can weight close to 1,000,000 lbs. They are responsible to complete a final pre-departure walk around Inspection of your flight once all doors are closed to ensure that it is safe to depart.
While a university degree may not be required, the training required and especially the level of responsibility that they have for your safety certainly far exceeds that of the vast majority of jobs that pay minimum wage.
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tailgunner
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by tailgunner »

It is still a somewhat free society. If you do not like the responsibility that comes with your job, you can seek out a new job with fewer worries. One can also seek out employment that provides a higher hourly wage. One could also invest in developing skills, experience, and training that will allow for choices in choosing employment. I challenge anyone to accurately define what a "livable wage" is. Livable depends on lifestyle and expectations. For what is ample in one case, is short in another. If one values driving a newly pimped out Mitsubishi, with the annoying muffler and rear spoiler, then perhaps the wages offered do not suffice. My two cents.
Cheers.
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Instructor_Mike
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by Instructor_Mike »

I look at the blocking of traffic as crossing the line even if it wasn't the highway. I support strike action and if workers want to stop the airplanes from moving by not showing up to work or slowing down the system so only half the aircraft movements occur (assuming it's within their legal strike options) then I have no problem with that.

I support the idea of unions and recognize the holiday we just had (Labour Day) is a result of the labour revolution from over a hundred years ago. The problem I have with union workers is when they pull stunts like this. It does get us all talking about them so it makes the news but unfortunately it's not positive publicity.
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Meatservo
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by Meatservo »

altiplano wrote:
Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:I can't imagine paying someone more than minimum wage to handle baggage.
Minimum wage to push back multimillion dollar aircraft too?
.
Why not? They pay other people close to minimum wage to operate them!

The trouble with blocking roads is, most of the time, you're not allying anyone to your cause. The general public doesn't deal directly with Swissport, so public pressure isn't going to matter much. It's kind of like when First Nations people block highways. I'm generally sympathetic to their cause, as I am to the Swissport guys. But when someone with a bandanna concealing their identity is banging on the hood of your car and yelling, they become "the enemy" unless you are a very open-minded individual.

Blocking public thoroughfares is crossing the line, and arrests should be made. Some people fly for medical reasons, or to visit dying relatives, or any number of reasons that are more serious than an employment dispute. Possibly the police don't get involved as they too are unionized and therefore sympathetic.

Either way, it pays during airport strikes to watch the news, anticipate if you can this type of disruption, and maybe take that new train to the airport.
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Inverted2
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by Inverted2 »

While these guys have delayed me a few times going into the parking garage, I feel for them. They've been out for 6 weeks and have pretty much been replaced by scabs. Swissport is starving them out. I haven't heard of any flight delays in weeks because of the strike.
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by ant_321 »

Inverted2 wrote:While these guys have delayed me a few times going into the parking garage, I feel for them. They've been out for 6 weeks and have pretty much been replaced by scabs. Swissport is starving them out. I haven't heard of any flight delays in weeks because of the strike.
I feel for them too. I will say though in my two years dealing with swissport from the pointy end of the airplane this is the smoothest things have ever been. Since the strike I haven't waited for a ground crew or taken a delay for anything ground crew related.
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Rockie
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by Rockie »

The thing about strikes is that the people conducting it rarely benefit enough to make it actually worth their own personal while. Between the lost wages and enormous stress it places on employees and their families it's a wonder any employee group ever gets to that point to vote for it. It really is a nuclear option from an employee standpoint and people don't vote for it lightly. Once it is voted for actually implementing it and sustaining it is even more difficult from a union standpoint and especially from an individual position. So I have little patience for assholes who say "if you don't like it quit". They are in my mind weak cowards.

In reality strikes in pursuit of better working conditions benefit the future workers, and while it's unfortunate workers have to resort to it the legal ability to shut down a work place is often the only driver behind better working conditions and safety protections for employees.
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confusedalot
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by confusedalot »

I tend to be union neutral and admittedly naive, you know, everyone is so nice and good and fair sort of thing, however I must agree that it is better to have unions survive. Human nature is what it is, best not to slip back into Victorian times, bad scene.
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crazyaviator
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Re: Give them nothing

Post by crazyaviator »

There was and is still a time and place for unions! When we look at the auto industry in Ontario, one realizes that they have gone too far !
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