Give them nothing

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pelmet
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Give them nothing

#1 Post by pelmet » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:04 am

"Ground crew workers on strike at Toronto Pearson International Airport are taking their demonstration to a new level by blocking access to Terminal 1 and 3 and causing traffic to backup coming in to the airport.
Peel police said some of the demonstrators have made their way onto the roads causing traffic to backup on Hwy. 409 to Hwy. 427 and Hwy. 401.

Const. Mark Fischer said the traffic started backing up around 1 p.m. and it had gotten increasingly worse around 5 p.m.
“The problem is now that people are getting out of their cars and walking on the road to the airport.”
The unionized workers are employed by Swissport, a company that services 30 airlines at Pearson including Sunwing, Air Transat, Air France and British Airways. They are represented by the Teamsters union and about 700 workers have been on strike since the end of July.

The ground crew workers went on strike after citing scheduling issues, a wage freeze and a lack of respect from Swissport. They rejected a contract offer on Aug. 23Police and Toronto Pearson are asking people stuck in traffic to remain in their vehicles and for other drivers to avoid the area if possible."

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/st ... spartandhp


Dear Swissport, on behalf of the average person who has nothing to do with this strike and took no sides but who the Swissport workers are willing to screw around to get what they want. I please, please request that you give them nothing.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Give them nothing

#2 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:07 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VrDWY6C1178

Why can't you deal with that, airlines and police, the way you advocate dealing with non compliant passengers? It's illegal to block a major roadway.

I'm only half joking here, more or less. :mrgreen:

Seriously, why is bad passenger behaviour grounds for violence, bad union behaviour is allowed?
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BGH
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Re: Give them nothing

#3 Post by BGH » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:19 pm

Is it possible that those purchasing the cheapest ticket possible & then mis- behaving are deemed to deserve what they get,while those protesting for a living wage are deemed to be protesting because they have no other path available.
For discussion only.

Daryl
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rookiepilot
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Re: Give them nothing

#4 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:36 pm

BGH wrote:Is it possible that those purchasing the cheapest ticket possible & then mis- behaving are deemed to deserve what they get,while those protesting for a living wage are deemed to be protesting because they have no other path available.
For discussion only.

Daryl

Absolutely not.

There are always options including quitting and taking another job if one feels unfairly done by from an employer.

But to take a legal work stoppage affecting only the employer and illegally stop traffic, calling in hundreds of their union buddies from other locals to help --all with no interest in this argument -- on a major freeway is not acceptable for any reason. Putting people's lives at risk. Should be criminal charges against whoever ordered that.

Certainly would be if you or I blocked the airport entrance for any reason.

If I was swissport I'd immediately stop all negotiation and pull in more replacement workers, with lots of thick armed security too. No deals.
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Boreas
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Re: Give them nothing

#5 Post by Boreas » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:18 pm

rookiepilot wrote: There are always options including quitting and taking another job if one feels unfairly done by from an employer.
Yeah... why do unions even exist? Whats up with that?

Plebs should be grateful for the opportunity to contribute to corporate profits!
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7ECA
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Re: Give them nothing

#6 Post by 7ECA » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:27 pm

rookiepilot wrote: If I was swissport I'd immediately stop all negotiation and pull in more replacement workers, with lots of thick armed security too. No deals.
Ah yes, scabs - the capitalist solution to all of your labour relations concerns...
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mantogasrsrwy
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Re: Give them nothing

#7 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:10 pm

pelmet wrote:"Ground crew workers on strike at Toronto Pearson International Airport are taking their demonstration to a new level by blocking access to Terminal 1 and 3 and causing traffic to backup coming in to the airport.
Peel police said some of the demonstrators have made their way onto the roads causing traffic to backup on Hwy. 409 to Hwy. 427 and Hwy. 401.

Const. Mark Fischer said the traffic started backing up around 1 p.m. and it had gotten increasingly worse around 5 p.m.
“The problem is now that people are getting out of their cars and walking on the road to the airport.”
The unionized workers are employed by Swissport, a company that services 30 airlines at Pearson including Sunwing, Air Transat, Air France and British Airways. They are represented by the Teamsters union and about 700 workers have been on strike since the end of July.

The ground crew workers went on strike after citing scheduling issues, a wage freeze and a lack of respect from Swissport. They rejected a contract offer on Aug. 23Police and Toronto Pearson are asking people stuck in traffic to remain in their vehicles and for other drivers to avoid the area if possible."

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/st ... spartandhp


Dear Swissport, on behalf of the average person who has nothing to do with this strike and took no sides but who the Swissport workers are willing to screw around to get what they want. I please, please request that you give them nothing.
+1
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rxl
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Re: Give them nothing

#8 Post by rxl » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:36 pm

Double post.
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Last edited by rxl on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Give them nothing

#9 Post by rxl » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:38 pm

Swissport is a 3 billion a year international enterprise. How about Swissport pay employees a living wage, treat them like human beings and provide them with reasonable work schedules.
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crazyaviator
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Re: Give them nothing

#10 Post by crazyaviator » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:50 pm

But to take a legal work stoppage affecting only the employer and illegally stop traffic, calling in hundreds of their union buddies from other locals to help --all with no interest in this argument -- on a major freeway is not acceptable for any reason. Putting people's lives at risk. Should be criminal charges against whoever ordered that.
Shades of ANTIFA scum !!
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Rockie
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Re: Give them nothing

#11 Post by Rockie » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:21 pm

I don't advocate what the Swissport workers are doing, but then I don't know what their employer is like either. Desperate measures and all that.

Saying "if you don't like it quit" is just ignorant. What would the world be like if everybody bailed on stuff the instant it got difficult? And it also betrays an ignorance of labour issues not to mention law.
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Re: Give them nothing

#12 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:42 pm

Rockie wrote:I don't advocate what the Swissport workers are doing, but then I don't know what their employer is like either. Desperate measures and all that. .
I acknowledged the work stoppage was legal.

Now, taking "desperate measures" -- an illegal act then is OK? Where does that line stop? Desperate why? No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. You see, that isn't any member of the public's call, to decide when things are "desperate" enough to take illegal action. You don't have that right.

If I think my situation is "desperate" enough, I still don't have the right to blow an aircraft slide, disobey a crew member to cause a safety issue, or block a highway. I would, rightly get charged.

Nor should any union locked in a labour dispute, decide for themselves what is and isn't lawful, throwing out the garbage "desperate".

What's next, violence against innocent passengers trying to get into the terminal? Intimidation?

It's either lawful order, applying to all, always, , or it isn't.

Black and white, Rockie.
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JBI
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Re: Give them nothing

#13 Post by JBI » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:51 pm

Have the striking workers actually done anything that is "Illegal"? Annoying, yes. Not all that strategic - you bet. But illegal - I've not seen anything to suggest that any of their actions have been illegal.
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Re: Give them nothing

#14 Post by Rockie » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:02 pm

Did you not read the part rookiepilot where I said I don't advocate it? But in any civil disobedience type action it would be dense not to consider what caused it in the first place.
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Re: Give them nothing

#15 Post by B208 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:54 pm

Rockie wrote:But in any civil disobedience type action it would be dense not to consider what caused it in the first place.
:roll: This is not civil disobedience (unless you're a drama queen), it's just a strike for better working conditions.

I support the union's right to strike as much as I support the company's right to pursue profits. If the union wants to inflict wounds on the company, so be it. However, it becomes unacceptable when either side deliberately targets parties who have nothing to do with their conflict.
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Re: Give them nothing

#16 Post by Rockie » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:19 pm

Is there something blocking my words here? I said a civil disobedience type action. I've also said twice now I don't support it, but I'll also repeat again when people resort to this kind of thing the cause deserves scrutiny before condemning it out of hand.

I've been inconvenienced in this way myself with a Toronto civic strike years ago and was not happy about it. The strikers wanted to bar my access to my own car in a public parking garage so you can imagine my response, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a valid reason for striking, or that their employers attitudes didn't drive them to it.

Every contentious action like this is designed to impart third part pressure on an employer. Sometimes it's the only strategy left to an employee group against an employer that the law and circumstances completely favours.
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Re: Give them nothing

#17 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:46 pm

JBI wrote:Have the striking workers actually done anything that is "Illegal"? Annoying, yes. Not all that strategic - you bet. But illegal - I've not seen anything to suggest that any of their actions have been illegal.
So if stood on the road and blocked traffic on any street in Toronto I wouldn't get arrested and charged?
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JBI
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Re: Give them nothing

#18 Post by JBI » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:38 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
JBI wrote:Have the striking workers actually done anything that is "Illegal"? Annoying, yes. Not all that strategic - you bet. But illegal - I've not seen anything to suggest that any of their actions have been illegal.
So if stood on the road and blocked traffic on any street in Toronto I wouldn't get arrested and charged?
Kind of depends if you were wearing clothes or not. :lol: Public protest on roads (not highways) is generally legal in Canada provided that they groups have met any by-laws (some municipalities require permits) and that it is a peaceful protest.

My point isn't necessarily condoning what the Swissport workers have been doing (I haven't been through YYZ for a while) and I don't know enough about the specifics of the dispute (other than generally speaking I think what the contracted ground handlers at YYZ get paid is incredibly low and I do think higher pay would lead to better service for the airlines) but just that I've not heard anything to suggest that what they've been doing is illegal. Striking workers are allowed to slow traffic and pedestrian access to the premises and they're allowed to protest on streets.
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Last edited by JBI on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

rxl
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Re: Give them nothing

#19 Post by rxl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:50 am

Swissport pays most of its workers minimum wage with baggage handlers being paid about .75/hour more. The general minimum wage in Ontario is $11.40/hour until October 01/17 when it becomes $11.60/hour.
Give them nothing? They're already getting next to nothing.
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Re: Give them nothing

#20 Post by complexintentions » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:03 am

Now, taking "desperate measures" -- an illegal act then is OK? Where does that line stop? Desperate why? No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. You see, that isn't any member of the public's call, to decide when things are "desperate" enough to take illegal action. You don't have that right.
lol

Kind of funny. You may backtrack now, but in the Air Transat YOW thread, there was plenty of talk about it being up to the passengers to decide when things are desperate enough to take illegal action (i.e. the blowing of a slide}. No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. That was what we were told.

Yet now we tut tut tut about workers doing just that? They're just doing what some of the AT pax did - looking out for Number One.

For those whining about being inconvenienced, I'm not sure you grasp the concept of leverage.
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Re: Give them nothing

#21 Post by altiplano » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:06 am

I'll support the rights of labour.

What we have today is built on the Sacrifices and Solidarity of Organized Labour.

You are naive if you think living wages, benefits, reasonable work schedules, safety in the workplace and other things we take for granted would be here if not for actions like these in the past.

Is it an inconvenience?

Maybe.

But in a society today with every convenience imaginable, it's a small price and a reminder of what we are built on.
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Re: Give them nothing

#22 Post by altiplano » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:09 am

looking out for Number One.
I would say they are looking out for not just #1, but the people next to them now and the people that will come after them.
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Re: Give them nothing

#23 Post by rookiepilot » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:14 am

complexintentions wrote:
Now, taking "desperate measures" -- an illegal act then is OK? Where does that line stop? Desperate why? No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. You see, that isn't any member of the public's call, to decide when things are "desperate" enough to take illegal action. You don't have that right.
lol

Kind of funny. You may backtrack now, but in the Air Transat YOW thread, there was plenty of talk about it being up to the passengers to decide when things are desperate enough to take illegal action (i.e. the blowing of a slide}. No one was dying. A bomb wasn't about to explode. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. That was what we were told.

Yet now we tut tut tut about workers doing just that? They're just doing what some of the AT pax did - looking out for Number One.

For those whining about being inconvenienced, I'm not sure you grasp the concept of leverage.
LOL.

No where once have I advocated blowing a slide on any aircraft in any thread.

And for others this thread is nothing to do with Swissports wages. It's about preserving the rule of law.

I support that concept in all instances.

This isn't about inconvenience. Blocking a highway is an illegal act, which caused people to walk on a highway ---- a dangerous situation. Period. Illegal is illegal, people.

You don't get to choose what illegal acts are ok and those that aren't cause you "think" it's justifiable.

This wasn't random, spontaneous, either. This union called in hundreds of other union members from locals totally uninvolved in this dispute. This was organized far in advance.

Why aren't there charges?
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JBI
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Re: Give them nothing

#24 Post by JBI » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:38 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Blocking a highway is an illegal act, which caused people to walk on a highway ---- a dangerous situation. Period. Illegal is illegal, people.
Did they actually block the highway or just the roadway between terminals? There is a difference. One is illegal, one is not.
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Re: Give them nothing

#25 Post by JayVee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:30 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
JBI wrote:Have the striking workers actually done anything that is "Illegal"? Annoying, yes. Not all that strategic - you bet. But illegal - I've not seen anything to suggest that any of their actions have been illegal.
So if stood on the road and blocked traffic on any street in Toronto I wouldn't get arrested and charged?
Depends if you're wearing your wingsuit and cape...
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