The Bombardier VS Boeing thing

[Gino Under]

The article is 50% accurate at best.
The rest is pro-American twaddle.

It is pointless to continually restate the obvious as you persistently have a habit of doing. If that’s your thing ... whatever.
Corporate Welfare, handout, bailout, preferred interest rate loans, no interest loans, government investment, tax break, forgivable debt or whatever you care to claim is prevalent when it comes to Bombardier is also accurate when speaking to a much older, more established, much larger company like Boeing. Nothing new here.

It goes on everywhere in the aerospace industry every day. No amount of claiming the moral high ground on this issue makes sense, yet you keep trying to make the point Bombardier is immoral.
Are you blind or just plain bias?
I’m all for the underdog, Bombardier. In case you hadn’t noticed.

As a taxpayer who also finds the taxpayer support for BBD unsavoury is something our aerospace industry needs. So, if it is to continue, how about Bombardier continue to sell aeroplanes and get some of that taxpayer money back into the public coffers?
I’m sick of paying for failed government intervention (Avro Arrow) whether or not they are deserving of our support or not.
By the sound of it, so are you.

Gino

BTW, executive bonuses were negotiated BEFORE government money reigned down on Bombardier.

[rookiepilot]

Gino, I am unabashedly Pro American. We owe an incalculable amount to our best friends and neighbors for where we are today.

The constant America bashing in Canada is completely uneducated. They are not responsible for most of our problems.

It is my professional opinion -- and I do this for a living -- Bombardier is a horribly managed company. That is not bias, that is decades of experience in analysing companies. You are welcome of course to take the other side of that view.

I'll leave it there.

[Gino Under]

This is precisely why investment advisors are less accurate and less reliable than a weather forecast. They think they’re right.
Industry analysts no more accurate in their musings and for the same reasons.
Not to be trusted one iota.
Americans get bashed because they leave us with so much to bash on about. The Fall of the American nation as we knew it began years ago. They will be irrelevant in just a few more decades if not sooner.
Whether or not we kneel in deference to all the U.S. has bestowed on Canada has nothing to do with it.
Bullying is bullying.
We need to at least acknowledge it for what it is. Wherever it appears.
I’ll leave it at that.

cheers,
Gino

[rookiepilot]

This is precisely why investment advisors are less accurate and less reliable than a weather forecast. They think they’re right.
Industry analysts no more accurate in their musings and for the same reasons.
Not to be trusted one iota.
Americans get bashed because they leave us with so much to bash on about. The Fall of the American nation as we knew it began years ago. They will be irrelevant in just a few more decades if not sooner.
Whether or not we kneel in deference to all the U.S. has bestowed on Canada has nothing to do with it.
Bullying is bullying.
We need to at least acknowledge it for what it is. Wherever it appears.
I’ll leave it at that.

cheers,
Gino

OK, Thanks for the expert opinion on my industry, but I'm neither an advisor, nor an analyst --- But anyway ---

[Gino Under]

Based on the opinions you've expressed over this topic, it's safe to say, I believe I'm as much of an expert in my field as you believe you are in yours. That's fair.

I try to evaluate any financial advice I receive for myself. The last time I blindly followed my financial advisers' confident recommendation, I lost a sh*tload of dollars in the oil patch. Last time I do that. He's told me, even recommended to me that I unload Bombardier. Yet again attempting to fulfill the financial adviser's sage advise, sell low, buy high (better commission). Rarely, if ever, have I been telephoned and told that's as high as she's going dummy, let's sell this sh*t and make a few bucks.

Bombardier is my guy in this fight. Simple as that. I doubt they will be treated fairly by the American courts though. I expect to see a reduction in percentage but a tariff will be applied to C series. Even though, “You can be sure that Bombardier received extensive legal opinions before they accepted any of this money from either the Quebec or the Canadian government and, Bombardier, Ottawa and Quebec all made “a major effort to make sure this would be bulletproof” under international trade law.
Bombardier faces a tough political environment in the U.S., one where the Trump administration has considerably ramped up its review of trade remedy cases. America First!!!

I'm sure we'd have a laugh over a beer, despite our disagreement over this, so don't take this too seriously. WE disagree, and that's fine.

Gino Under

[rookiepilot]

Gino,

For sure the beer. It's all good. And you're correct on advisors, cause most operate under a very conflicted arrangement.

Here's my brief take, and why BBD to me, and even less troubled Canadian companies like Magna or many other exporters, are in my "too hard" basket.

The world is moving more towards protectionism, and that ain't that good for trading nations like Canada. This neither started with Trump, caused by him, nor will likely end with him. He is a mirror of the movement. A more moderate, slightly less antagonistic candidate, but with the same policies, would have run away with the US election.

It's not only America first. It will be Germany first, China first, UK first. We are small. That's problematic.

I hope you make a bundle, and for Canada the C series takes off (lol). Really. Simply too tough for me. I like everything lining up together.

[confusedalot]

Bombardier stock possibly will skyrocket, remember Air Canada before their debacles? Could have , should have, would have......

Bit of an insult though to the canadian public.

[Gino Under]

rookiepilot
I do agree with you on your protectionism observation. I was never a fan of globalization but always suspicious of it. Western manufacturers setting up in China (the reverse engineering capital of the world) isn’t a good idea in my opinion. I always like to point out that not all good ideas are good ideas.
The C Series avionics are the same avionics in the COMAC 919 (or whatever it’s called) so competition for the C series in China is already in place. Never mind the tariff outcome in America.

confusedalot
I hope your right about the skyrocket prospect for Bombardier stock, but I doubt it. I’d be happy with a “positive rate of climb” to at least 5-10 bucks a share. Value added to this company better see the taxpayer re-paid for this embattled investment, however labelled.
I still wish them well.

Who knows? There’s an idiot loose on Pennsylvania Avenue.

Gino

[rookiepilot]

The way it is:

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-m ... for-energy

A government that stands for a rich Quebec family's company, but easily decides to piss on Western Canada. Again.

And if bombardier was an Alberta company it would have a liberal government's support?

[confusedalot]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

The apple industry squeezes by, oranges make trillions, even in the worst of times.

I am no lover of BBD so don't get me wrong.

Bottom line, BBD gets no help, poof, no more Bombardier.

Oil and gas get no help, they still make trillions. Even if they kick out thousands to the street. They just did not make enough trillions to satisfy the investor class so in their conventional wisdom, creating unemployed is the preferred way to boost their stock. I have lived through this with Pratt and Whitney, another preferred corporate welfare case, who also make billions.

Wouldn't it be nice to live in a world of empathetic CEO's with a moral conscience that would be willing to work for the greater good?

Cheers, as my signature indicates, just can't figure it out.

I live in a modest house worth 600K in Montreal. Same house in Calgary, 2 million. Says it all. (Never mind Toronto)

There is more to this game than just some handouts, and I do believe that nasty corruption and greed have alot to do with it.

[7ECA]

And if bombardier was an Alberta company it would have a liberal government's support?

How many billions of dollars worth of tax breaks have the oil and gas industries received over the years? Yes, they're hurting...

In actual news, the DoC added a further 80% tariff on the import of C-Series aircraft to the US. There, a nice 300% - that 'ought to keep Boeing in the game.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-41532309

[Gilles Hudicourt]

One thing you'll never see:

The US puts a 300% tariff on Canadian Oil and gas because it's subsidized by the Canadian Government.

[Victory]

It seems like Ireland is more upset about this than the average Canadian. Why did we subsidize this project so heavily only to have a large portion of the aircraft be built by cheap labor in Northern Ireland?

[rookiepilot]

One thing you'll never see:

The US puts a 300% tariff on Canadian Oil and gas because it's subsidized by the Canadian Government.

Another west hater chimes in. Nothing like the politics of division, eh Gilles? Bring back the NEP?

News flash: The carbon taxes, that killed this very sensible pipeline project -- and keeps Montreals mayor happy -- yes that's top priority over the job creation -- aren't a tax subsidy. Or a loan that will never be repaid.

No, instead let's keep importing more oil, and products. Yeah, that's so much better that refining it ourselves.

The stupidity of playing politics over strengthening a country. But as long as we please Quebec voters.

[Gino Under]

The energy east pipeline should go through. This will come back to bite us big time.
Global warming is scientifically inaccurate but the greenies haven’t looked at scientific proof or validation. Scare mongering is sufficient. The politicians will cower and concede to the majority. Accurate or inaccurate assessments don’t matter.

Al Gore isn’t a meteorologist people. Neither is David Suzuki!!!

Hydro Quebec needs to increase their rate for hydro exported to the US by 300%. That’ll sort them out.
Say what you like, Bombardier is fuct. This is going to end in tears.

Taxpayers rejoice! (No, wait. Bend over.)

Gino

[sanjet]

Happening this week...


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mona ... SKBN1CD0XS
In order to get a 737max order....

Boeing Co (BA.N) had pumped in more than 100 million pounds ($130 million) into Britain’s Monarch Airlines [MONA.UL] which collapsed last week, the Financial Times reported on Monday.
The capital infusion, through Monarch’s offshore holding company Petrol Jersey, was carried out in several tranches between October 2016 and March this year, the FT said.

https://global.handelsblatt.com/compani ... val-837108
Corruption probe expanding at Airbus...

Airbus's CEO Enders warned staff the company could face “substantial fines. The company has already lost access to some export credits in the UK, France and Germany, but there may be even more at stake: in its 2017 report, Airbus admitted that “it could be excluded from government or other contracts for some time.” In short: the company could take a major financial, reputational and legal hit, affecting aircraft sales, cash flow and the bottom line.

[teacher]

And in other news Delta says "screw you Boeing".......

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report ... e36537364/

[YVRLTN]

Monarch Airlines folded last week, one reason was inability to renew their ATOL. It has emerged that the only reason they managed to renew it this time last year was because of a last minute investment to pay it for it, which was directly from Boeing.

It seems that it is all OK because it is all part of the financing agreement for the MAX order in form of payback for costs associated with changing crew and infrastructure with the fleet manufacturer change, plus they firmed some options at that time IIRC. While many thought it was odd to even order the MAX, considering that it cant operate into at least two main airports on the network not load restricted (while their existing fairly elderly A320 can), not to mention the cost associated with the change for a small carrier, and the 321neo is just perfect for them, it seems there is far more to this MAX order than meets the eye.

Effectively Boeing bailed out a customer to protect an order which they somehow won from Airbus and they would lose if they went under. While legally the basics anyway are probably above board, in principle how are such practices any different to go to such lengths for 'a nobody' like ZB just to spite Airbus?? Since when did aircraft manufacturers pay for ATOL licenses? Or am I naive and it happens all the time...

[leftoftrack]

Could this be as simple as setting up an offshore leasing firm and leasing these planes to delta at a $1/year rate?

[golden hawk]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html