Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

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RatherBeFlying
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Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#1 Post by RatherBeFlying » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:35 pm

ihunterapp.com told two hunters our glider field is crown land. So they shot two deer, drove across a runway - and were subsequently stopped by Fish and Wildlife.

We are the leaseholder. It seems ihunter doesn't check if crown land is under lease, or occupied, or an aerodrome.

If your 'drome is on crown land, don't forget your flak jacket.

Yes, I've sent my concerns to ihunter and the Ministry.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#2 Post by youhavecontrol » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:13 pm

I have to do low passes to chase ATV drivers off the airstrip we use for training from time to time. One time I had to shut down and kick an old lawn mower part off the runway surface. ..silly rednecks.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#3 Post by dogone » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:23 pm

You did not HAVE to report the hunters. If they were not interfering with aircraft or acting unsafe just inform them of the situation and move on. Perhaps a hunter will report your supposed low and unsafe flying someday. Far to many folks get law involved when common sense would do.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#4 Post by confusedalot » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:47 pm

Wouldn't a few perimeter signs around the territory indicate to hunters where they are and what they are dealing with?
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#5 Post by photofly » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:05 am

It’s an offence under CAR 301.08(i) to discharge a firearm within or into the boundary of an aerodrome without the permission of the aerodrome operator. Unfortunately there’s no penalty associated with the rule, but it’s something you could put on a sign.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#6 Post by B208 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:49 am

In the spirit of "What's right, not who's right", I'm with the idea of putting up some signs (assuming there aren't some already). The vast, vast majority of firearms owners and hunters are very safety conscious and mindful of regulations. If they are informed that an area is a no-go zone they will respect it.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#7 Post by Moose47 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:17 am

"silly rednecks"

Little stereotyping are we?
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#8 Post by pelmet » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:42 am

Shoot 'em
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#9 Post by all_ramped_up » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:33 am

B208 wrote:In the spirit of "What's right, not who's right", I'm with the idea of putting up some signs (assuming there aren't some already). The vast, vast majority of firearms owners and hunters are very safety conscious and mindful of regulations. If they are informed that an area is a no-go zone they will respect it.
This.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#10 Post by Meatservo » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:36 pm

Moose47 wrote:"silly rednecks"

Little stereotyping are we?
Uh-oh. Rednecks have only been an "ethnic group" for ten seconds, and someone is already offended!
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#11 Post by youhavecontrol » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:04 pm

Moose47 wrote:"silly rednecks"

Little stereotyping are we?
As a born and raised rural Albertain, with dust, mud and oil in my blood... yeah. I'll call them what I am. ..not like they'd be embarrassed by that title anyways.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#12 Post by confusedalot » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:50 pm

pelmet wrote:Shoot 'em
For any particular reason?

I am not a hunter by the way, and I hate guns.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#13 Post by Prairie Chicken » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:02 am

photofly wrote:It’s an offence under CAR 301.08(i) to discharge a firearm within or into the boundary of an aerodrome without the permission of the aerodrome operator. Unfortunately there’s no penalty associated with the rule, but it’s something you could put on a sign.
Well, there is a penalty, but it would be an effort to have an investigation initiated & action taken if warranted. In this instance where no harm was actually done, you're right, nothing much would likely happen.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#14 Post by photofly » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:24 am

Prairie Chicken wrote:
photofly wrote:It’s an offence under CAR 301.08(i) to discharge a firearm within or into the boundary of an aerodrome without the permission of the aerodrome operator. Unfortunately there’s no penalty associated with the rule, but it’s something you could put on a sign.
Well, there is a penalty, but it would be an effort to have an investigation initiated & action taken if warranted. In this instance where no harm was actually done, you're right, nothing much would likely happen.
Nope, Not even after an investigation.

301.08 is not listed in Schedule II to subpart 103.08, therefore doesn't quaify as "designated" under section 7.6 of the Aeronautics Act. Therefore sections 7.7 to 8.2 of the Act don't apply and no monetary penalties are possible.

The only actions that TC can take against a transgressor (per Chapter 10 of TC's Aviation Enforcement Policy Manual) is oral counselling and suspension of a Canadian Aviation Document. Unless the hunter or hunters are also pilots (in which case their licences could be suspended) the only thing Transport Canada can do is invite them to an interview, no coffee no biscuits. And if they don't bother to turn up there's nothing further that can be done.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#15 Post by nine sixteenths » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:02 am

Cleaning a few deer out of the area isn’t always a bad thing:

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4324293
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#16 Post by photofly » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:10 am

nine sixteenths wrote:Cleaning a few deer out of the area isn’t always a bad thing:

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4324293
From that article:

"Sunwest is working with the airstrip operator on ways to make landings safer for wildlife, RCMP say. "

It's nice to see everyone's priorities are arranged in the correct order!
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#17 Post by linecrew » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:13 am

youhavecontrol wrote:
Moose47 wrote:"silly rednecks"

Little stereotyping are we?
...not like they'd be embarrassed by that title anyways.

I was gonna say, a lot of the rednecks I know proudly wear the title...
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#18 Post by RatherBeFlying » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:31 pm

I have had a very useful dialog with iHunter.

As well as amending data for our field, they will be looking into the larger problem that provincial and state land databases may not show air field data.

At present any other software developer using provincial and state land databases may end up showing air fields as unoccupied public land.
301.08 is not listed in Schedule II to subpart 103.08, therefore doesn't quaify as "designated" under section 7.6 of the Aeronautics Act. Therefore sections 7.7 to 8.2 of the Act don't apply and no monetary penalties are possible.
301.08 is prosecutable under 7.3
Contravention of Part, regulation, etc.

(3) Except as otherwise provided by this Part, every person who contravenes a provision of this Part or any regulation, notice, order, security measure or emergency direction made under this Part is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#19 Post by photofly » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:48 pm

RatherBeFlying wrote:
301.08 is prosecutable under 7.3
Contravention of Part, regulation, etc.

(3) Except as otherwise provided by this Part, every person who contravenes a provision of this Part or any regulation, notice, order, security measure or emergency direction made under this Part is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Aha. OK. But they'd need to be prosecuted in court first. TC can't just issue a fine.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#20 Post by Prairie Chicken » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:39 am

Prosecution is the correct answer. It's also the reason there is almost no enforcement or action taken for 301--it would have to be very serious or a recurring offence for charges to be laid by TC or police.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#21 Post by leftoftrack » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:51 am

Who cares, how big was the animal they shot is the bigger question
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#22 Post by Skyhunter » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:53 pm

"ihunterapp.com told two hunters our glider field is crown land. So they shot two deer, drove across a runway - and were subsequently stopped by Fish and Wildlife.

We are the leaseholder. It seems ihunter doesn't check if crown land is under lease, or occupied, or an aerodrome.

If your 'drome is on crown land, don't forget your flak jacket."

Talk about an over dramatic statement. As a hunter I can tell you that if I was shooting a deer on an airfield you would be completely safe unless of course you are doing a very low "low and over" supersonic so I couldn't hear you coming and not see you either. Do you know anything about hunting big game? Bullets are not sprayed all over the place. One or two well aimed shots with full understanding that there is nothing between you and the target, and nothing beyond the target that be hurt by a miss. And yes even gliders make noise (have my glider lic as well).

Not legal, maybe, unsafe, highly unlikely.

Skyhunter,
Pilot, Redneck, Hunter, horse rider, in that order and proud of them all.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#23 Post by Heliian » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:00 am

The hunters bear all the responsibility here. Using a 3rd party app and trusting it is dumb. Since a grass strip is obviously cleared, that should have been enough to demonstrate it's occupied land. No signs required. This goes not just for hunters but anyone else who thinks that any open space is public playground. I put signs up at my place and that got rid of about half of the trespassers, the other half are just ignorant idiots or dumb kids.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#24 Post by dogone » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:25 pm

Once again I will send this caution. You may have a fit about a hunter unknowingly being on your runway and causing no harm. BUT he may have a fit about YOU supposedly flying to close to dwellings or causing noise or some other bullshit. Remember what goes round comes round. Airplanes are quite visible and if you welcome RCMP or TC investigating your behaviour then carry on.
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Re: Hunters Blundering onto Air Fields

#25 Post by TailwheelPilot » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:32 pm

It seems like everyone is assuming the aerodrome operator called Fish & Wildlife, yet nowhere does is it said that the aerodrome operator, local pilots, or anyone else even called Fish & Wildlife, merely that they were the ones who stopped them. Perhaps a question for RatherBeFlying to clarify the occurence before everyone gets twisted out of shape...
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