'PCC' training in canada?

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7507
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'PCC' training in canada?

#1 Post by 7507 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:49 pm

Not an expert on PPC and PCC but in order to sit on the right seat you need a PCC. Who can provide this training in Canada and of course it's what type of aircraft as well.

Anybody shed some light on where to get this training and is it going to give you an "edge".

Thanks again
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#2 Post by Beefitarian » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:58 pm

Not sure what PCC is but I think you might have to start with PPL then get a CPL or you might be SOL.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#3 Post by 7507 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:01 pm

Beefitarian wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:58 pm
Not sure what PCC is but I think you might have to start with PPL then get a CPL or you might be SOL.

Funny!
Pilot competency check
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#4 Post by Beefitarian » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:12 pm

Ah, there's the problem. Competency isn't really my thing. Generally speaking checkouts are done by the company.

As for getting an edge, hours are King. On type and PIC are even better.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#5 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:51 pm

If I recall correctly PCCs are utilized by companies that generally operate VFR on single pilot machines, but require two pilots for insurance purposes.

Usually a captain or designated training pilot can perform the in aircraft training and check. The check is a combination of VFR manoevers vs a PPC which is an IFR checkride.

Everything should be outlined verbatim in your ops manual.

Hope that helps.

S.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#6 Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:17 pm

7507 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:49 pm
Not an expert on PPC and PCC but in order to sit on the right seat you need a PCC. Who can provide this training in Canada and of course it's what type of aircraft as well.

Anybody shed some light on where to get this training and is it going to give you an "edge".
They're both aircraft specific type training (not to be confused with a type rating, that's a different thing all together and is often confused).

PCC - Pilot Competency Check. Done internally by a company, usually with training pilots, but some bigger companies will use the chief pilot or other "company check pilot". Coles notes version for 703 operations is VFR single engine PIC needs a PCC and a multi engine FO needs a PCC. Starts to get a bit more confusing when flying single engine at night with pax or without pax, but we won't worry about that right now.

PPC - Pilot Proficiency Check. Training is usually done by the company, but the actual "ride" is done by a TC approved check pilot. All IFR and multi-engine pilots acting as PIC need a PPC.

So your typical Navajo/PC-12/King Air captain will have a PPC. The FO will have a PCC. Your float pilots will all have a PCC (except twins; DHC-6, Beech 18)

The reference you are looking for is 703.88(c)

704 and 705 operations require a PPC (pilot proficiency check) for both pilots.

All training is done by your employer. There are companies that offer training on different types, but it's a huge waste of money as every company will train you to their SOPs anyway. A PCC isn't transferable, so any training towards a PCC on a "flight school" Navajo doesn't count towards anything.
PPCs are transferable, but paying for your own training though FlightSafety, SimCom, CAE it is really shunned upon in Canada. If you showed up to a King Air operator and say to the chief pilot "I just paid for my own right seat King Air PPC, can I have a job?", it likely wouldn't sit well and it won't get you a job. The CP or training captain doesn't want to be having debates about how to operate the plane.

So to answer your questions directly, you get this training once you are hired. Doing anything earlier will not give you an "edge" and may actually do the opposite.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#7 Post by cdnpilot77 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:36 pm

604 operators occasionally only require PCC’s with a bi-annual IPC ride. it all depends on the operation.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#8 Post by HiFlyChick » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:59 pm

Even an IFR SIC can get by with a PCC for every second ride, so long as you meet the 6-6-6 rule. The company I used to fly with sometimes used a guy that could do IFR rides but not specifically PPCs, so they'd have the chief pilot sit in for the IFR ride and conduct the PCC at the same time. That way the IFR could be renewed and the guy's PCC signed off by the CP. That was before they did away with the IFR expiry, though, and the company I fly with now only uses Captains since most flts are single pilot...
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#9 Post by lownslow » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:07 am

7507 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:49 pm
is it going to give you an "edge".
I don't think competency checks can be brought with you to a new company however proficiency checks can. This can sometimes be attractive to a company because it will save them a bunch on training but be warned, if every deviation from SOP is answered with, "But at my last company we did it this way," you'll find yourself looking for a new job pretty quickly.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#10 Post by co-joe » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:47 pm

My understanding is that a company can do PCC's instead of PPC for FO's but it has to be laid out and approved in your COM. Slightly less training is involved than in a PPC. Something like 3 hour training plus ride vs 5 hour plus ride. A little cheaper, a little lower standard.

As for portability, I was told you can't take a PCC from one company to the next but who knows.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#11 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:11 am

It will be all written out in the company operations manual that your company must follow. Plus the minimum training time required is written in the commercial air standards. Those minimums are the ones taken into account when writing the COM.

If you are genuinely curious, grab the COM from the aircraft library on the next long leg and find out for yourself. Or look it up in the standards, but they could be different than your company's operations manual.

As for cost, remember that a PPC needs to be done by a TC approved check pilot. That could easily be $500-750 per ride once all costs are factored in (travel, expenses, fees). Plus it's usually another 1.5 in the plane beyond the training.
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Re: 'PCC' training in canada?

#12 Post by co-joe » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:36 am

...or 0.9 in the plane and 1.5 in the log book. ;)
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