Legal Marijuana

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rookiepilot
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#26 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:20 am

US article discussing, somewhat different because it is still illegal under federal law. Depends how the law is written in Canada.

https://apnews.com/772b7d3f502d4a2daef0c0f52c0cab77

"Bottom line: You can’t come to work high. You can still be drug tested. And you can still be fired — or not hired — for failing a drug test even if you’re not the least bit impaired at work.

All the states with legalized recreational pot have exemptions for workplace drug policies.

In Massachusetts, for example, the law includes language stating that “the authority of employers to enact and enforce workplace policies restricting the consumption of marijuana by employees” is not changed."

---------

"CAN I GET FIRED EVEN IF I’M NOT HIGH?

THC, the psychoactive chemical in cannabis, can stay in a person’s system for days or even weeks, experts say — long after the buzz has subsided.

“It’s the equivalent of firing somebody who drank a glass of wine on Friday evening and then came to work on Monday,” said Tamar Todd, legal director for the Drug Policy Alliance, who believes employers should reconsider zero-tolerance policies in light of changing laws and attitudes.

A number of efforts are underway to develop an accurate method, akin to the Breathalyzer for alcohol, to measure actual marijuana impairment. Such a test might be useful not only for employers, but also for police and prosecutors trying to determine what constitutes driving under the influence of marijuana in states where recreational pot is legal."


----------------

And --- this is right out of what I've speculated -- the union is fighting the company's methods to determine who is safe to work.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4420864

Union challenges drug testing to Supreme Court. (Suncor)

"The union remains fully committed to the workplace safety of its members, all workers and the public at the Suncor oilsands mine site," Smith said.

"The safety of all can only be protected by policies that reflect appropriate and meaningful respect for the privacy and dignity of the workforce."

THIS -- is the great country people have chosen. Think I'll vomit now.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#27 Post by piperdriver » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:11 am

Unions can do a lot of good by bringing employees together and negotiating fairer contracts and I have always been a fan of them, but my view of unions has recently been spoiled. An employee was fired from the company in which I work for, I will not get into the details but he was driving very recklessly and basically operating a vehicle in an unsafe and illegal manner. Putting other employees in danger that were in the vehicle with him and also the public that was sharing the road with this moron. These reckless acts were well documented and I did not think the employee which was fired would have a solid case to fight against his dismissal. The union represented and fought for the fired employee and after 4 months he had his job back. I couldn't believe it and ever since this episode I have had a different view on unions. If you think a union will not got to bat for a fired pilot, bus driver, taxi driver, etc. for using marijuana on their time off your crazy.

So although I do not always agree with Rockie Pilot I would have to agree 100% with his statement because of what I personally witnessed at my workplace.
There will be push back from the bleeding hearts but in my mind sometimes safety trumps the trivial end of man rights.
-----Of course it does. Thats a logical, sane world. We no longer have that world. Look around.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#28 Post by Heliian » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:22 am

It's not a systemic problem, it won't ever be a systemic problem. For some it's just too much fear mongering about the "devil weed". Fear sells. That's why all you see in the news and tv is violence and fear. You'd be out of business if you just ran nice and friendly news stories.

What about all of the other drugs that are currently legal(mainly opiods and barbituates)?

What about alcohol, it's legal and is causing more problems.

How about distractions? Distracted driving is the no.1 killer above alcohol and speed combined.

Don't believe the hype, you will see that the day of legalization will come and go with only a little fanfare. Sell your pot stocks at the emergence though, it's not going to be the high flying ride that's advertised.

It's not rocket science either, if a company wants employees free of all substances then they can make provisions. Want to work for a company that has mandatory testing, the usa has many. We haven't seen it in Canada yet because of some basic freedoms, give them up if you must. I don't care what you do.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#29 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:27 am

So if someone who earns their living as a pilot is considering using this drug on occasion how many positive things does use of this drug have?
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#30 Post by montado » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:38 am

Heliian wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:22 am
What about all of the other drugs that are currently legal(mainly opiods and barbituates)?
Antibiotics for my chlamydia are legal. However my company policy states I am not to report for duty while taking antibiotics. SO here I am scratching my nuts posting on AvCan instead. Guess if I decide to take on pot I'll be doin the same thing!
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#31 Post by B208 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:01 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:24 pm
Let me take the other side just for fun. Say I'm a pilot, after this is legal, I get busted on a drug test, reveals I used - smoked -- I dunno even the terms -- 2 weeks ago. I get fired by the company. I immediately sue the company, on the basis they can't prove impairment, so its discriminatory. It's a firing without cause. I get the human rights commission on my side, maybe even the union.
If TC lists cannabis use as disqualifying you for a medical, (as was stated in the AIC referenced earlier in this thread), then the matter is quite simple. You knowingly flew with out a valid medical. You can eat the consequences and @#$! the human rights commission.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#32 Post by dogfood » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:05 am

I don't understand what the big deal is. Dont show up to work high end of story there is a million other legal things out there you can get a buzz on (paint, gas, glue, salvia, cough syrup .... list goes on) no one seems to care about that.. Lots of pilots out there smoke weed you just don't hear about it because they don't want to loose there jobs. With it being legal that list will increase simply saying pilots cant smoke weed isnt going fix the problem they still will. Booze in my opinion is a more impairing drug than weed is and causes much more long term and short term problems. Treat it like alcohol 12 hours before using the substance before getting in an airplane. There is nothing wrong if someone wants to smoke on there time off just be fit to fly when you get to work.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#33 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:42 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:47 pm
phillyfan wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:55 pm
The first time I am exposed to second hand smoke I will sue the growers, sellers and the user. That goes for anybody who stabs me with a needle filled with heroin or meth. If I am exposed to a medically disqualifying drug, I will certainly take action.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good luck with that. They will laugh you out of court, just like a suit for second hand smoke.

Not trying to razz you. Just look at the direction Canada, the world, is going. Pot. Optoid epidemic. Ect.

Face it, your career rights as a pilot, my teenage daughter's rights not to have pot agressively marketed to her, and everyone else's for clean hair, have been superseded by the pothead's.

How are the cops, BTW, going to prove roadside THC impairment, for drivers? How do you measure impairment? You know who's going to get sued. The first airline who fires someone for using, (off the job) when they can't prove impairment on the job. Human rights commission, anyone?

You'll be sharing the cockpit with potheads. And perfectly legal. What are the long term effects on users? NO cognitive impairment? Who knows?

Big difference? While illegal, being a user at any time would be a firing offense. No users with unknown cognitive impairment driving planes or trucks. Now? That will be discriminatory. Human rights commission up the employers ass.

I don't like it. But remember this is a majority of folks vision for Canada. Legalized pot is our fair haired PM's great vision and accomplishment. Awesome.

You all voted for this, my friends. Fun world.
Take the elastic band off your testicles, sonny. You'll realize its a world that has left you behind.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#34 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:45 am

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:27 am
So if someone who earns their living as a pilot is considering using this drug on occasion how many positive things does use of this drug have?
What makes you think anyone has to answer to you on this, Chuck?

You're not trying to learn, you're just being Chuck.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#35 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:46 am

Heliian wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:22 am
It's not a systemic problem, it won't ever be a systemic problem. For some it's just too much fear mongering about the "devil weed". Fear sells. That's why all you see in the news and tv is violence and fear. You'd be out of business if you just ran nice and friendly news stories.

What about all of the other drugs that are currently legal(mainly opiods and barbituates)?

What about alcohol, it's legal and is causing more problems.

How about distractions? Distracted driving is the no.1 killer above alcohol and speed combined.

Don't believe the hype, you will see that the day of legalization will come and go with only a little fanfare. Sell your pot stocks at the emergence though, it's not going to be the high flying ride that's advertised.

It's not rocket science either, if a company wants employees free of all substances then they can make provisions. Want to work for a company that has mandatory testing, the usa has many. We haven't seen it in Canada yet because of some basic freedoms, give them up if you must. I don't care what you do.
Absolutely on both counts.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#36 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:50 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:20 am


THIS -- is the great country people have chosen. Think I'll vomit now.
How's that working for you, Sparky?
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#37 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:55 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:10 am
valleyboy wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:55 am
There will be push back from the bleeding hearts but in my mind sometimes safety trumps the trivial end of man rights.
---- Of course it does. Thats a logical, sane world. We no longer have that world. Look around.

But I predict a sh--storm because the looney left, with their my rights and safe places world, will challenge what companies can and can't do. And here's the bizarre thing: YOU, my taxpayer friend, through a human rights challenge, will fund the challenge to your own safety and mine. That's how crazy things are. It'll get messy.
As messy as your puddle of vomit promised above?
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#38 Post by Rowdy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:13 pm

Ah yes, avcanada, where the same group argues with each other solely for the sake of arguing!
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#39 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:29 pm

I'm just curious when CNPC Commands the toilet at the back of the aircraft, how hard it is to allocate the # of squares of TP per person.

Is there a checklist for that? :mrgreen:

Based on the comments here, might need to be :shock:
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#40 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:59 pm

What makes you think anyone has to answer to you on this, Chuck?

You're not trying to learn, you're just being Chuck.
And you are being evasive and not addressing the question.

If you get caught with THC in your system you can have your career ruined..period.

So my question is valid.

What are the positives for using it that make the risk worth taking?

Just Chuck. :|
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#41 Post by Meatservo » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:10 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:59 pm

What are the positives for using it that make the risk worth taking?

Just Chuck. :|
I hear it packs a wicked buzz. (to quote Beavis and Butthead)

It is also useful as a palliative for some painful medical conditions, most if not all of which would probably disqualify you from holding a medical anyway, so that part isn't really germane to this discussion.

For those pilots who like to smoke dope, it packs a wicked buzz. That's the positive. That's what is worth risking your career for. Seems kind of immature to me, but I also have other reasons for not smoking it (I hate the smell and it makes me feel sick) so I can afford to be sanctimonious about it, I suppose. Personally I think everyone is making a way bigger deal out of this than they need to. If "zero tolerance" is the way they are going with this, and I don't have a problem with that, then the course is clear for people who don't like to take the risk of ending their career over something I don't really think is worth fighting for, but that's just me. On the one hand, if I were to smoke weed on Friday, I'm pretty sure I'd be a-OK to fly on Monday. But on the other hand, most of the habitual dope-smokers I know seem, well, a little "dopey". There's a facial expression and a way of talking that I am convinced is more than just a stereotype. Just like some people choose to go on empirical evidence that for them, suggests it's harmless, I choose to err on the side of caution and assume that it's doing something to your brain. Exactly what it's doing is subject to endless debate and, since it's been illegal to smoke it up till now, there isn't a lot of research on the subject. Until there is, I find that I'm supportive of a total ban on the substance for people who use their brains to guide high-speed, fragile machines full of people through the atmosphere,over top of even more people. I'm really, really OK with that. As far as the idea that "legal" and "illegal" should be the only thing that determines whether you should be able to fly commercially or not, I might point out that it's not illegal to have no eyes, either, but it's illegal to fly a plane with no eyes. There are all kinds of other things besides "illegal" that can stop you having the career you want.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#42 Post by Heliian » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:57 pm

Meatservo wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:10 pm
Exactly what it's doing is subject to endless debate and, since it's been illegal to smoke it up till now, there isn't a lot of research on the subject.
Um, I'm pretty sure the research has been done, decades ago. I'm hoping this will lead to deregulation of the hemp industry and maybe even more studies into its commercial uses. Maybe one day you'll be flying along in a marijuana* powered airplane. Don't fly intoxicated by anything. The rules are in place.


*biofuel
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#43 Post by Heliian » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:07 pm

Rowdy wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:13 pm
Ah yes, avcanada, where the same group argues with each other solely for the sake of arguing!
Lol. Everyone needs a hobby. Hot topics are always heavily contested and I think discussion is good. We'll have to ask PDW to monitor the winds on legalization day, wouldn't want to fly through a cloud of pot smoke.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#44 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:12 pm

Heliian wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:07 pm
Rowdy wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:13 pm
Ah yes, avcanada, where the same group argues with each other solely for the sake of arguing!
Lol. Everyone needs a hobby. Hot topics are always heavily contested and I think discussion is good. We'll have to ask PDW to monitor the winds on legalization day, wouldn't want to fly through a cloud of pot smoke.
:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#45 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:34 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:59 pm
Just Chuck. :|
:D :D
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#46 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:36 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:29 pm
I'm just curious when CNPC Commands the toilet at the back of the aircraft, how hard it is to allocate the # of squares of TP per person.

Is there a checklist for that? :mrgreen:

Based on the comments here, might need to be :shock:
I'm sure there are a lot of stupid senseless things you are just curious about.

Find the answers. Until then, bugger off.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#47 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:41 pm

cncpc wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:36 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:29 pm
I'm just curious when CNPC Commands the toilet at the back of the aircraft, how hard it is to allocate the # of squares of TP per person.

Is there a checklist for that? :mrgreen:

Based on the comments here, might need to be :shock:
I'm sure there are a lot of stupid senseless things you are just curious about.

Find the answers. Until then, bugger off.
http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/marin-dec-10

Your safe space is calling you. Sorry for the loss of a hero. :D

Look others besides yourself have views on this subject. Sorry that offends you. I suggest don't read if it bothers you that much. :roll:

There's a well known saying -- "you're entitled to your own opinions -- not your own facts".
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Legal Marijuana

#48 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Smoking marijuana and flying can be problematic.

When I was flying water bombers I had a F.O. that smoked on a regular basis and he even did it when I was present such as on the golf course on days when our on call time allowed us to play a round of golf.

It had complained to the company but was told to just keep an eye on him and not to cause a problem because it might cause us to lose the contract.

So I was stuck with a political problem.

Finally it really did involve safety because he showed up for work one morning looking a bit strange, we got sent on a fire and I made the mistake of flying with him. I knew he had been smoking weed the previous day because I saw him doing it.

We were dropping on a fire where we had to fly over high tension wires in a valley and just as we were about to cross the wires he pulled the power on both engines.

I quickly shoved the throttles back up and asked him what in f.ck he was doing and he just looked off into the distance like he was on another planet.

I called the bird dog and told him I had a problem and was returning to base.

When we landed I told the bird dog officer and the pilot what had happened and they said to get back in the airplane and get back on the fire.

I refused and was told I would never fly again.

The company and the fire centre got involved and I was told to either fly or I was finished.

So I called a lawyer and we called Ottawa and talked to the Minister of Transport and advised him I was calling the RCMP and demanding the F.O. be taken to a hospital and tested for drugs in his system.

Well to make a long story short I not only was not fired, they quietly sent the F.O. back home and sent me a new F.O.

The moral to my story is rule of law trumps internal politics every time.
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#49 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:14 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Smoking marijuana and flying can be problematic.

When I was flying water bombers I had a F.O. that smoked on a regular basis and he even did it when I was present such as on the golf course on days when our on call time allowed us to play a round of golf.

It had complained to the company but was told to just keep an eye on him and not to cause a problem because it might cause us to lose the contract.

So I was stuck with a political problem.

Finally it really did involve safety because he showed up for work one morning looking a bit strange, we got sent on a fire and I made the mistake of flying with him. I knew he had been smoking weed the previous day because I saw him doing it.

We were dropping on a fire where we had to fly over high tension wires in a valley and just as we were about to cross the wires he pulled the power on both engines.

I quickly shoved the throttles back up and asked him what in f.ck he was doing and he just looked off into the distance like he was on another planet.

I called the bird dog and told him I had a problem and was returning to base.

When we landed I told the bird dog officer and the pilot what had happened and they said to get back in the airplane and get back on the fire.

I refused and was told I would never fly again.

The company and the fire centre got involved and I was told to either fly or I was finished.

So I called a lawyer and we called Ottawa and talked to the Minister of Transport and advised him I was calling the RCMP and demanding the F.O. be taken to a hospital and tested for drugs in his system.

Well to make a long story short I not only was not fired, they quietly sent the F.O. back home and sent me a new F.O.

The moral to my story is rule of law trumps internal politics every time.
Maybe he waa checking to see if you were awake?
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Re: Legal Marijuana

#50 Post by cncpc » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:17 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:41 pm
cncpc wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:36 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:29 pm
I'm just curious when CNPC Commands the toilet at the back of the aircraft, how hard it is to allocate the # of squares of TP per person.

Is there a checklist for that? :mrgreen:

Based on the comments here, might need to be :shock:
I'm sure there are a lot of stupid senseless things you are just curious about.

Find the answers. Until then, bugger off.
http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/marin-dec-10

Your safe space is calling you. Sorry for the loss of a hero. :D

Look others besides yourself have views on this subject. Sorry that offends you. I suggest don't read if it bothers you that much. :roll:

There's a well known saying -- "you're entitled to your own opinions -- not your own facts".
You forgot "A stitch in time saves nine" or "Eat all your peas, or you'll get no dessert.". But I guess when you're just pulling things out of your ass, things get overlooked.

But those are tried and true favorites when you are trying to make peoples eyes glaze over with bullshit.
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