Help! I have searched the CARS and this sight but for the life of me can't find the answer. Could direct me to a link or something of the like?
Upgrading the panel on a privately operated single IFR aircraft. It will be all glass but the shop doing the work says I must have a radial clock with a second hand even though I will have three other sources(GPS, XPonder, engine monitor) with clocks/timers on them. I've flown many EFIS AC with no analog clock so this seems odd.
Thoughts?
ABU
Required IFR Equipment
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: Required IFR Equipment
CAR 605.18
No mention of a need for any time keeping capability, let alone specifics on what kind. That's the CARs but your aircraft type certificate may specify differently. I would simply ask the shop for the reference requiring the clock.
What type of aircraft, where are you located?
No mention of a need for any time keeping capability, let alone specifics on what kind. That's the CARs but your aircraft type certificate may specify differently. I would simply ask the shop for the reference requiring the clock.
What type of aircraft, where are you located?
Re: Required IFR Equipment
Oh I am aware of 605.18 but I am either blind or the ability to navigate the CARS escapes me. Could you cut and paste the actually link please..how frustrating.
I'ts for a C-185.
I'ts for a C-185.
Re: Required IFR Equipment
Or the requirement you're looking for doesn't exist?
Re: Required IFR Equipment
No clock that I can see on the Type Certificate Data Sheet for a 185.
Re: Required IFR Equipment
Is the shop thinking about the US rules?
FAR 91.205:
91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.
...
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
...
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
It sounds like you have other timers in place that would meet this requirement already but it also wouldn't be the first time that someone has passed off what they thought the rules requires as what the rules actually require. If I had a buck for every time that someone insisted that something was required by law but couldn't support that position with the actual law I would be a rich man.....
FAR 91.205:
91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.
...
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
...
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
It sounds like you have other timers in place that would meet this requirement already but it also wouldn't be the first time that someone has passed off what they thought the rules requires as what the rules actually require. If I had a buck for every time that someone insisted that something was required by law but couldn't support that position with the actual law I would be a rich man.....
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Schooner69A
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Re: Required IFR Equipment
602.60 (1) (f)
602.60 (1) No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft, other than an ultra-light aeroplane, unless the following operational and emergency equipment is carried on board:
(f) a timepiece that is readily available to each flight crew member;
It would appear that a wrist watch or a pocket watch with fob would satisfy the requirement. I would ask the shop to show you the relevant regulation.
602.60 (1) No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft, other than an ultra-light aeroplane, unless the following operational and emergency equipment is carried on board:
(f) a timepiece that is readily available to each flight crew member;
It would appear that a wrist watch or a pocket watch with fob would satisfy the requirement. I would ask the shop to show you the relevant regulation.
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complexintentions
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- Location: of my pants is unknown.
Re: Required IFR Equipment
I can't see how this would be the case when analog chronographs have been removed for years on newer EFIS aircraft to be replaced with digital clocks/timers on the screen...?
Transport-category a/c are exempt from having an analog clock with a sweep hand but a C-185 isn't? Well, stranger things have happened but it seems very odd.
Transport-category a/c are exempt from having an analog clock with a sweep hand but a C-185 isn't? Well, stranger things have happened but it seems very odd.
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
Re: Required IFR Equipment
Perfect and thanks people! There are a few phrases I have heard the shop use that match what I've seen here one of which is "...with a sweep second hand..". Sounds like they are regurgitating regs from another country or are outdated.
Case closed thanks again!
ABU
Case closed thanks again!
ABU
Re: Required IFR Equipment
I just finished a very lengthy process of getting an amateur-built aircraft with a glass cockpit approved for IFR. I had no analog clock, and my inspector was incredibly diligent in that if there was even the slightest inkling of a requirement for it, it would have come up. Note that even the US rules have the option of a "digital presentation". I think that the thing they're looking for is that you need to have a device somewhere that can reliably indicate time, including seconds for timing purposes. I doubt that a wristwatch or device not incorporated into the airplane would suffice, but if your glass panel has the capability of showing a digital timer with seconds, I'd be very surprised if that wasn't sufficient.
