Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Message
Author
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#26 Post by AirFrame » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:54 am

CpnCrunch wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:41 pm
I think if *all* the hangar owners go through the appeal process with accurate figures, you'll be more likely to get a reassessment.
The assessor I spoke to said to me that regardless of any numbers we bring them, they have to take into consideration all properties that they deem "comparable". Which means despite actual selling prices of units in our complex or others, we would be valued based on the open market value of "comparable" commercial space elsewhere on and off the airport.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2870
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#27 Post by CpnCrunch » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:55 am

AirFrame wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:54 am
CpnCrunch wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:41 pm
I think if *all* the hangar owners go through the appeal process with accurate figures, you'll be more likely to get a reassessment.
The assessor I spoke to said to me that regardless of any numbers we bring them, they have to take into consideration all properties that they deem "comparable". Which means despite actual selling prices of units in our complex or others, we would be valued based on the open market value of "comparable" commercial space elsewhere on and off the airport.
But if you give them a lot of data for hangar sales/rental figures, and they all agree, that's pretty compelling evidence that hangars shouldn't be assessed the same as a factory or Tim Hortons franchise.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#28 Post by AirFrame » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:58 am

7ECA wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:43 pm
Good for the owners - although the appeals process is a joke with BC Assessment.

You appeal, eventually get a phone call from them where they try to talk you out of it by telling you that you either won't get a reduction, or threaten that they may even realize that your property is "undervalued" and increase your assessment.

When you still won't back down, they let you know that there are appeal panels that meet at inconvenient times for anyone working (usually the middle of a weekday), and these kangaroo courts with zero accountability to anyone can do whatever the hell they want.
This is a common theme expressed by many people who have dealt with BC Assessment in the past, it seems. However! Once you have gone through the appeal with their panel, you can pay $100 to have it heard by a judge. Once you've paid that $100 and shown that you're not interested in their kangaroo court results, they will start negotiating in earnest, because they DO NOT WANT to have anything put before a judge.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Schooner69A
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:17 pm
Location: The Okanagan

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#29 Post by Schooner69A » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:20 pm

Our hangars are listed as "Business" which is obviously a tax ploy of some sort seeing as they're all used to house private aircraft.

J
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#30 Post by AirFrame » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:33 am

Schooner69A wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:20 pm
Our hangars are listed as "Business" which is obviously a tax ploy of some sort seeing as they're all used to house private aircraft.
Not quite... They are assessed in a category called "Business and Other". Yes, businesses are in that category, but our hangars are classified as "Other". ie., they don't have a category for Hangars. And as BC Assessment will tell you, they have nothing to do with taxation... Just assessment. Taxation is the municipality.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Schooner69A
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:17 pm
Location: The Okanagan

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#31 Post by Schooner69A » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:53 pm

I should have said that it was the City of Vernon that insists we are "Business"...?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Human Factor
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:55 pm
Location: Between a dock and a hard place.

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#32 Post by Human Factor » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Quick question: What is the monthly "pad fee" payable to VAA for owning a hangar at YYJ? I heard something in the neighbourhood of $900 for a basic t-hangar but couldn't get confirmation.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Will fix airplanes for food.

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#33 Post by rookiepilot » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:20 am

AirFrame wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:58 am
7ECA wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:43 pm
Good for the owners - although the appeals process is a joke with BC Assessment.

You appeal, eventually get a phone call from them where they try to talk you out of it by telling you that you either won't get a reduction, or threaten that they may even realize that your property is "undervalued" and increase your assessment.

When you still won't back down, they let you know that there are appeal panels that meet at inconvenient times for anyone working (usually the middle of a weekday), and these kangaroo courts with zero accountability to anyone can do whatever the hell they want.
This is a common theme expressed by many people who have dealt with BC Assessment in the past, it seems. However! Once you have gone through the appeal with their panel, you can pay $100 to have it heard by a judge. Once you've paid that $100 and shown that you're not interested in their kangaroo court results, they will start negotiating in earnest, because they DO NOT WANT to have anything put before a judge.
That is interesting information.

Unfortunately all governments are broke because of their own incompetence. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more of this.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#34 Post by rookiepilot » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:20 am

AirFrame wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:58 am
7ECA wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:43 pm
Good for the owners - although the appeals process is a joke with BC Assessment.

You appeal, eventually get a phone call from them where they try to talk you out of it by telling you that you either won't get a reduction, or threaten that they may even realize that your property is "undervalued" and increase your assessment.

When you still won't back down, they let you know that there are appeal panels that meet at inconvenient times for anyone working (usually the middle of a weekday), and these kangaroo courts with zero accountability to anyone can do whatever the hell they want.
This is a common theme expressed by many people who have dealt with BC Assessment in the past, it seems. However! Once you have gone through the appeal with their panel, you can pay $100 to have it heard by a judge. Once you've paid that $100 and shown that you're not interested in their kangaroo court results, they will start negotiating in earnest, because they DO NOT WANT to have anything put before a judge.
That is interesting information.

Unfortunately all governments are broke because of their own incompetence. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more of this.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#35 Post by AirFrame » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:35 am

Human Factor wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:57 pm
Quick question: What is the monthly "pad fee" payable to VAA for owning a hangar at YYJ? I heard something in the neighbourhood of $900 for a basic t-hangar but couldn't get confirmation.
Do you mean the lease rate?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Human Factor
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:55 pm
Location: Between a dock and a hard place.

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#36 Post by Human Factor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:52 am

AirFrame wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:35 am
Human Factor wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:57 pm
Quick question: What is the monthly "pad fee" payable to VAA for owning a hangar at YYJ? I heard something in the neighbourhood of $900 for a basic t-hangar but couldn't get confirmation.
Do you mean the lease rate?
Yes. I couldn't formulate the right wording (brain fart) so channeled my inner Trailer Park Boy and came up with "pad fee". :wink:
---------- ADS -----------
  
Will fix airplanes for food.

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#37 Post by AirFrame » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:41 am

Human Factor wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:52 am
AirFrame wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:35 am
Human Factor wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:57 pm
Quick question: What is the monthly "pad fee" payable to VAA for owning a hangar at YYJ? I heard something in the neighbourhood of $900 for a basic t-hangar but couldn't get confirmation.
Do you mean the lease rate?
Yes. I couldn't formulate the right wording (brain fart) so channeled my inner Trailer Park Boy and came up with "pad fee". :wink:
$900 is way off. It's just over $200/mo on the north side, or about $2500/yr.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Human Factor
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:55 pm
Location: Between a dock and a hard place.

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#38 Post by Human Factor » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:46 pm

AirFrame wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:41 am

$900 is way off. It's just over $200/mo on the north side, or about $2500/yr.
Thank you, that's considerably more reasonable.

I remember seeing one for sale in the Viscount Center a few years ago for around $85-90K and I thought that the listing said that the monthly assessment was $900. I could have read that wrong, or perhaps it was an annual assessment? It doesn't really matter now.

I think that was the last time that I saw a hangar available for sale, seems they don't come up very often.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Will fix airplanes for food.

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#39 Post by AirFrame » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:26 am

The price for a hangar at Viscount is accurate. They're a little nicer (and a fair bit newer) than many of the hangars on the north side. I don't know what their monthly assessments are, but $900 seems high to me. Note that $200/mo is just for the lease. With all costs included (maintenance, insurance, etc) the monthly cost is around $300 on the north side (at least at our complex).
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Human Factor
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:55 pm
Location: Between a dock and a hard place.

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#40 Post by Human Factor » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:05 pm

AirFrame wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:26 am
The price for a hangar at Viscount is accurate. They're a little nicer (and a fair bit newer) than many of the hangars on the north side. I don't know what their monthly assessments are, but $900 seems high to me. Note that $200/mo is just for the lease. With all costs included (maintenance, insurance, etc) the monthly cost is around $300 on the north side (at least at our complex).
Any vacancies?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Will fix airplanes for food.

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#41 Post by AirFrame » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:48 am

No, sorry... Full up everywhere as far as i know.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#42 Post by AirFrame » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:39 am

UPDATE: With COPA's assistance, the four hangars that pursued appeals at YYJ this year have won a reduction in their assessed values from BC Assessment. A more detailed story will come from COPA once some other appeals still in process are finished, but at YYJ the reductions returned values to modest increases over the 2017 assessment, and an understanding that future assessments will be done using the same method that was used to reach these values.

The hangar classification hasn't changed, they're still considered commercial, but the factors used to generate a price have been adjusted to account for limitations on access, use, facilities, etc. that other commercial properties don't have. Until such time as COPA can mount an appeal to change legislation to change classifications, this is about as good as it gets, I think.
---------- ADS -----------
  

7ECA
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 684
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#43 Post by 7ECA » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:52 pm

While that sounds like progress, I hate to say it but BC Assessment will just turn around a crank your assessments up again in the next year or so. This is a completely unaccountable agency, that cannot - I repeat, cannot justify in any way the methods they use to assess property or building values.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Honour is a man's gift to himself ~Duke Elegant
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.

User avatar
AirFrame
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#44 Post by AirFrame » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 am

7ECA wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:52 pm
While that sounds like progress, I hate to say it but BC Assessment will just turn around a crank your assessments up again in the next year or so. This is a completely unaccountable agency, that cannot - I repeat, cannot justify in any way the methods they use to assess property or building values.
Actually, they can. They can value properties in a number of ways, from actual sales figures to the perceived commercial opportunity. In our case, we had actual sales figures, and had them adjust their commercial model to account for the restrictions present on a hangar that wouldn't apply to a commercial property off the airport.

We've been told that the same method used to re-evaluate for 2018 will be used to evaluate us in future, so we shouldn't see another big jump like we did this year. Time will tell.
---------- ADS -----------
  

jakeandelwood
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: Hangar Tax Assessments CYYJ

#45 Post by jakeandelwood » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:33 pm

Kejidog wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:28 pm
Nobody cries for the rich.

But seriously the powers that be look at anyone with disposable income as a cash cow to milk dry. And they probably figure that if you own a hangar you’re loaded.

It is an all out class war on the middle classes.
I rent a hangar on the north side, fortunately my landlord hasn't raised my rent, but he told me about the assessments going up. Just because I own a plane doesn't mean I'm rich. I make a lot of sacrifices to own it, I work long hours, drive a $400 vehicle, I spent years building my own house to have a low mortgage payment. The govt knows the middle class will always pay taxes.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”