Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

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Lotro
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Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#1 Post by Lotro » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:12 am

From TheStar.com
Bombardier Inc. says it is considering the sale of a parcel of land adjacent to Downsview Park that houses an aircraft assembly plant employing 3,500 workers. But a city councillor is warning of a fight over any move that she says would violate a federal promise.

Bombardier spokesperson Olivier Marcil said Friday that the Montreal based aerospace giant is “exploring its options” with potential buyers for its 375-acre site that includes an airport runway and a production facility for jets and the turboprop Q400.

Marcil said some of the production could potentially be moved to Pearson International Airport, although a decision on if and where to relocate has not been made
My take:

Bombardier moves, Buttonville moves to Downsview, Business Aviation at Pearson moves to Downsview, Porter gets the whisper jet out of Downsview everybody wins?

https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/0 ... sview.html
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sanjet
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#2 Post by sanjet » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:17 am

Lotro wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:12 am
My take:

Bombardier moves, Buttonville moves to Downsview, Business Aviation at Pearson moves to Downsview, Porter gets the whisper jet out of Downsview everybody wins?

https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/0 ... sview.html
I personally think it’s the end of the Dash-8/Q400 era (unfortunately). Downsview airport shuts down, becomes a cookie cutter townhouse real estate bonansa given the peak prices in Toronto. Might keep a small plant open to keep/manufacture Dash-8 OEM parts depending on our business friendly government (sarcasm).
Its a big cash feed for Bombardier and they need it.

Once the c-series is brought out by Airbus, Bombardier will go back to being a lean private jet only manufacturer.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#3 Post by rookiepilot » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:05 pm

Your tax dollars at work, comrades.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#4 Post by photofly » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:41 pm

Can we organize a fly-in before they plough up the runway? Just once? Please?
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#5 Post by goingmach_1 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:06 am

Amazon? Perfect for a massive warehouse for their needs
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#6 Post by Zaibatsu » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:44 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:05 pm
Your tax dollars at work, comrades.
That’s how aviation works.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ontractors
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#7 Post by anofly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:42 pm

It would be a very sweet deal if somehow they allowed GA to use Downsview. I think the way the approaches would have to come in under the pearson approaches makes it not much fun for ATC. Maybe some of our ATC friends will comment. Even Brampton has a lot of anxiety around it wrt missed approaches. ATC gets kinda jumpy if you don't cancel before you get to mins, as they need to protect the missed....
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#8 Post by RatherBeFlying » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:18 pm

There's 2 ILS approaches directly overhead YZD and another one a couple miles north. Using the full ILS, YYZ traffic would be at 3000' which could be workable (don't know about wake turbulence), but extra work for YYZ approach. I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of reliever airports in the US are tucked under ILS's, but ATC up here is not used to it.

Yes, Bombardier regularly uses YZD for circuits. Before I got downsized I could see Dash 8s doing circuits from my office.

Somehow I doubt Bombardier would want to relocate to YYZ, but YHM could work out very well for them and their workforce could get a nice break on housing prices.
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Last edited by RatherBeFlying on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chris M
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#9 Post by Chris M » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:45 am

YZD, in its current form, is strictly visual approaches. Company traffic always comes in from the north and either performs straight in approaches on 15 or a right circuit to 33. I think there is a published approach for 33 that come in from the shoreline but I've never seen it done. When we had the YZD-YUL shuttle it would have to go to Pearson when weather get bad.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#10 Post by fleet16b » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:06 am

There is definitely something happening at Downsview.
Most of the tenants are finding that the Landlord has no interest in renewing any leases.
Some tenants have already relocated because of this.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#11 Post by Lotro » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:29 am

goingmach_1 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:06 am
Amazon? Perfect for a massive warehouse for their needs
Maybe you're right!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e37654374/
Toronto is the only Canadian city to make the short list to host Amazon's second headquarters location, joining 19 U.S. cities also in the running.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#12 Post by A346Dude » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:02 pm

Chris M wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:45 am
YZD, in its current form, is strictly visual approaches. Company traffic always comes in from the north and either performs straight in approaches on 15 or a right circuit to 33. I think there is a published approach for 33 that come in from the shoreline but I've never seen it done. When we had the YZD-YUL shuttle it would have to go to Pearson when weather get bad.
Another option in marginal VFR is to shoot the NDB RWY 21 to YKZ then cancel IFR when they break out.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#13 Post by YYZSaabGuy » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:46 am

It does look as though Bombardier is attempting to move this along: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -site-sale. Partial excerpt below:

"Bombardier Inc. has hired Toronto-Dominion Bank to find a buyer for the Downsview aircraft-assembly plant in Toronto that could fetch more than C$500 million ($382 million), according to people familiar with the matter.

Canada’s biggest aerospace company has received multiple bids, with residential developers in the mix, said the people who asked not to be identified because the matter isn’t public. Housing development would increase the value of the land, though builders may face opposition from the union and lawmakers looking to preserve the land for industry.

A sale would further Bombardier Chief Executive Officer Alain Bellemare’s five-year turnaround plan, which includes bolstering the balance sheet. The Montreal-based company is saddled with about $9.2 billion of debt after investing in research and development of new aircraft and is stepping up efforts to raise cash with the goal of breaking even on a cash-flow basis this year.

Bombardier plans to move its Toronto-area manufacturing activities from Downsview to a site that would provide access to a runway without the costs associated with staffing a fire department or a control tower, according to one of the people. Toronto Pearson International Airport is being considered as an alternative site."
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#14 Post by Chris M » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:43 am

"Staffing a control tower" :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#15 Post by tsgas » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:02 am

moving to YYZ wouldn't save them any money but YHM, YMX, YXU , or even YHZ would save them a bundle.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#16 Post by CBAME » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:08 pm

I imagine there is a list of Ontario and probably other province air ports who are trying to convince them where to move YKF YQG to name 2 more with a decent size runway and lots of empty land
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#17 Post by Lotro » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:35 pm

The citizens of YKF (an airport owned by the city) hate airplanes, so that'd be a problem.

I'm not super familiar with the environment at YQG, but it is under American airspace which may or may not be a consideration.

YHM seems like an easy one, YXU sounds plausible to me.

I like the wacky airports game a lot so I'm going to suggest YQA and YLS and just for fun, YAM and YYB.

The cost to shut down the plant, open a new one, and then move all the employees would be HUGE which makes me think (without any knowledge or reference) that shutting it all down seems more likely.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#18 Post by golden hawk » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:07 pm

They gotta keep YZD for the next Rolling Stones SARS concert!

:wink:
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#19 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:24 pm

YXU has a gigantic empty Cat factory right near the airport. Not suitable for final assembly, but could make a lot of components there.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#20 Post by CBAME » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:03 am

True about YKF i am not sure how much flying would be done in the night which is what they dislike the most. as long as deliveries and testing take place after 8am people should not complain. I think most of thier past complaints were when Nolonor's old 737's took off around 7am

YQG not sure if the US airspace would be an issue

YXU i think something is in the CAT building now storage or something.

On my daily commute i often see fuselages, wings and tails wrapped up in blue plastic heading down the highway between YXU and YYZ, How much building is actually done at Downsview? or is it more of an assembly plant. Downsview is a unique place and has some history but its location is not the best.

realistically Montreal is probably where the work will end up.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#21 Post by Chris M » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:15 pm

CBAME wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:03 am
On my daily commute i often see fuselages, wings and tails wrapped up in blue plastic heading down the highway between YXU and YYZ, How much building is actually done at Downsview? or is it more of an assembly plant. Downsview is a unique place and has some history but its location is not the best.
The Q400 wing and cockpit, as well as the wing for the Lear 70/75 are built from scratch in Downsview. Otherwise all major components are trucked in for final assembly.

The Q400 fuselage comes from China.

For the Global the wings and fuselage are build by Mitsubishi near Pearson, the cockpit comes from Montreal, the tail comes from Mexico and the h-stab comes from Ireland.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#22 Post by seasonaldriver » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:54 am

So, just to throw this in as a wild card suggestion that won't happen because it is west of Toronto, but how about YGM, Gimli in Manitoba? Big concrete runway, lots of space, cheap housing nearby, ramp big enough any plane they make...
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#23 Post by bobcaygeon » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:48 pm

seasonaldriver wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:54 am
So, just to throw this in as a wild card suggestion that won't happen because it is west of Toronto, but how about YGM, Gimli in Manitoba? Big concrete runway, lots of space, cheap housing nearby, ramp big enough any plane they make...
Minimal numbers of existing skilled employees in the area (and little potential for new ones if you've ever visited the interlake.)
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#24 Post by seasonaldriver » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:36 pm

Maybe not in Gimli and the interlake but Winnipeg is not far away and I think has a significant number of people in the aerospace industry. Also maybe some present employees could be persuaded to move west.
But like someone said in an earlier post, any move will be east. Manitoba, on the fringe of the frontier, hardly seems to exist.
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Re: Bombardier considers move away from Downsview

#25 Post by sanjet » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:36 am

As predicted, Bombardier just sold the Q400 program.



Bombardier Sells Aging Q400 Turboprop Line, Cutting 5,000 Jobs As It Sharpens Focus On Business Jets
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyboga ... 97539d1736
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