AIRAT - Experience

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sky_ruler
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AIRAT - Experience

#1 Post by sky_ruler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:39 pm

Hello Aviators,

I'm planning to write my AIRAT next month. I know the basic experience to write a written exam is 50% of the total experience required. I have more than 300 hours of teaching experience but I have only 4 recommendations. Just wanted to check with you people if you have any idea about it since I couldn't find the requirements in CARs or the Exam Study Guide. Also people who recently did their AIRAT, Your comments and suggestions to prepare are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#2 Post by Aviatard » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:14 pm

CARS 421.71(3)(a) and (b)

If you're too lazy to look that up, then here's the link:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_71
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#3 Post by 455tt » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:11 pm

Aviatard wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:14 pm

If you're too lazy to look that up, then here's the link:
Hey Aviatard - nice of you to reply and post the link, but rude of you to make a personal insult. Lazy? Big deal - the OP is just seeking some friendly advice, no need to insult him or her!

I hope you don't speak to your students/customers/co-workers/family like that. If you do, then there are some insulting names that others could call you ...

OP: Please feel free to ask whatever you want, there are many of us here that would be pleased to assist without feeling any need to insult you.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#4 Post by Aviatard » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm

455tt wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:11 pm

Hey Aviatard - nice of you to reply and post the link, but rude of you to make a personal insult. Lazy? Big deal - the OP is just seeking some friendly advice, no need to insult him or her!
Whoa, dial it back 10% there superchief. I didn't insult him. You know the meaning of the word "if", right? As in if you don't want to make the effort to look it up, here's a handy link for you? Did you consider whether there could be any other meaning before you launched your lecture?

There, now don't you feel better? I knew you would.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#5 Post by sky_ruler » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:17 pm

Aviatard wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:14 pm
CARS 421.71(3)(a) and (b)

If you're too lazy to look that up, then here's the link:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_71
Appreciate your response. I had a look on that already the CAR which you mentioned is about the issuance of a Class 2 Instructor Rating which needs 500hrs instruction time and 10 reccommends. But my question was regarding writing the AIRAT! - Is 50% experience (i.e 250hrs instructing time) enough? or do I need minimum of 5 recommends along with min.hours to write the exam? I tried looking up in the CARS but couldn't find it. I've emailed TC but no response yet.

Thanks
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#6 Post by 5x5 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:02 pm

Take a look at 421.13(4)(c).
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#7 Post by Aviatard » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:37 pm

Ok I'll teach you how to fish. Here is how I would go about solving this problem:

In order to answer your question, you need to know the Examination Prerequisites. Mister 5x5 in his post above has given you a hint. CAR 421.13(4)(c) says this:

(c) an applicant for a higher class of Instructor Rating shall have completed fifty percent (50%) of the flight instructor experience requirement;

Now you need to know what the experience requirement is for a class 2 instructor. That's what I was trying to give you earlier. CARS 421.71 Class 2 - Aeroplane - Requirements has the requirements. It says this:

(3) Experience
An applicant shall provide evidence of having conducted, in aeroplanes, a minimum of 500 hours of flight instructor experience, including a minimum of:

(a) 400 hours dual flight instruction for the issue of a civil pilot licence or to military wings standards;

(b) have recommended no fewer than 10 applicants for the recreational, private and/or commercial flight test, of which a maximum of 3 may be for the recreational flight test;


Note that 421.13 does not say you only need the flying hours, it says you need to meet the experience requirements. The experience requirements (421.71) say you need the hours AND the recommends.

Therefore you could conclude that you need 250 hours and 5 recommends.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#8 Post by 455tt » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:08 pm

Aviatard wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:37 pm
Ok I'll teach you how to fish. Here is how I would go about solving this problem:

In order to answer your question, you need to know the Examination Prerequisites. Mister 5x5 in his post above has given you a hint. CAR 421.13(4)(c) says this:

(c) an applicant for a higher class of Instructor Rating shall have completed fifty percent (50%) of the flight instructor experience requirement;

Now you need to know what the experience requirement is for a class 2 instructor. That's what I was trying to give you earlier. CARS 421.71 Class 2 - Aeroplane - Requirements has the requirements. It says this:

(3) Experience
An applicant shall provide evidence of having conducted, in aeroplanes, a minimum of 500 hours of flight instructor experience, including a minimum of:

(a) 400 hours dual flight instruction for the issue of a civil pilot licence or to military wings standards;

(b) have recommended no fewer than 10 applicants for the recreational, private and/or commercial flight test, of which a maximum of 3 may be for the recreational flight test;


Note that 421.13 does not say you only need the flying hours, it says you need to meet the experience requirements. The experience requirements (421.71) say you need the hours AND the recommends.

Therefore you could conclude that you need 250 hours and 5 recommends.
Hmm.

Not sure about your analysis Aviatard - I suggest the following approach.

So yes of course we must have completed 50% of the "flight instructor experience requirement" to gain admission as per CARs 421.13(4)(c) as above.

But if we reference the definition of "Flight Instructor Experience" at CARs 400.01(1) we find this definition:

"flight instructor experience" with respect to the experience requirements for a flight instructor rating for an aeroplane or helicopter, means the flight time accumulated in an aeroplane or helicopter

(a) by a holder of a flight instructor rating while providing dual flight instruction to applicants for

(i) a pilot permit — recreational,

(ii) a private or commercial pilot licence, or

(iii) a night rating, VFR OTT rating, flight instructor rating — aeroplane, flight instructor rating — helicopter or flight instructor rating — aeroplane — aerobatic,

(b) by a holder of a foreign flight instructor rating issued by a contracting state, while providing dual flight instruction to an applicant for a permit, licence or rating equivalent to one of those referred to in paragraph (a), and

(c) by a Canadian Forces qualified flying instructor while providing dual flight instruction to persons undergoing initial flight training in the Canadian Forces; (expérience d’instructeur de vol)

So by this analysis, we need 50% of "a minimum of 500 hours of flight instructor experience" for the Class 2 or 250 hours flight instructor experience to sit the AIRAT. Now you state we also need the recommendations, which is 10 for a civilian instructor, but 421.71 is to be read in the context of when you actually get around to APPLYING for the licence. Yes you need the recommends, but only when you apply for the licence. That is to say that, when we actually apply for the Class 2, CARs 421.71 requires we must demonstrate that we have everything needed in terms of prerequisites (have held Class 3 in past 12 months), knowledge (70% on AIRAT), experience (total flight instructor experience hours and recommends) and skill (flight test). But we don't have to have all of this done when we sit the AIRAT. That will come later.

So, to simply sit the AIRAT, as per CARs 421.13(4)(c) to gain admission to the written, all we need is to have 250 hours of flight instructor experience, with "flight instructor experience" defined by CARs 400.01, with no minimum recommends needed, and our OP with 300 hours flight instructor experience should be all clear to challenge the AIRAT, it seems to me.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#9 Post by 455tt » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:39 am

To the OP: It would probably be a good idea when you sign in for the AIRAT written that you bring along a paper copy of CARs 400.01, so you can verify if necessary that the CARs don't mandate any recommendations for sitting this exam. As well bring along your pilot logbook to verify you have at least 250 hours of flight instructor experience.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... ml#docCont

Good luck - let us know if you have any difficulties but you should be good to go!
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#10 Post by Aviatard » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:49 am

You could be right about that. I did look at 400.01, but decided to go with 421.71 as the higher requirement. Of course, it all depends on the interpretation of the person at the desk when you sign in for the exam. If I recall, I had all of the recommends when I wrote the AIRAT ages ago, so it didn't matter in my case. I wonder if the OP will ever get back and update this thread if he actually writes the exam.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#11 Post by 455tt » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:47 am

400.01 is really important since it is an interpretation provision that sets out the specific meaning of terms used in all of Part IV of the CARs so that is why I recommended bringing along a paper copy just to be sure the invigilator stays on track. Invigilators can sometimes be capricious. I too hope the OP lets us know how things turn out.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#12 Post by youhavecontrol » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 pm

Personally, I don't really see a benefit in writing so early before you do the flight test. ..especially if you're not sure if you have the qualifications or not. I wasn't sure of the interpretation myself, so I just I wrote mine after having 10 rec's to be safe and certain, and immediately did the flight test a few days after, so all the info was super fresh in my mind during the flight test.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#13 Post by 455tt » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:38 am

For me I have always been a big believer in writing your exams the moment you have sufficient minimum times to do so. For most advanced exams this is typically 50% of the total experience so why not get them out of the way sooner rather than later? You can sit the IATRA, for example, with just 125 hours!
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#14 Post by sky_ruler » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:42 pm

youhavecontrol wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 pm
Personally, I don't really see a benefit in writing so early before you do the flight test. ..especially if you're not sure if you have the qualifications or not. I wasn't sure of the interpretation myself, so I just I wrote mine after having 10 rec's to be safe and certain, and immediately did the flight test a few days after, so all the info was super fresh in my mind during the flight test.
Thanks for all the replies guys.The reason why I was asking that question about the recommends is because I have got 4 recommends as of now. I have 3 flight tests planned in the next month. So just wanted to write the AIRAT when I go to the nearest TC centre which is about 6 hours drive away.

Regards,
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#15 Post by Caml » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:09 am

I am writing AIRAT next week and am looking for any question bank info that anyone may have.
Thanks
Cam
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#16 Post by sky_ruler » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:12 pm

Caml wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:09 am
I am writing AIRAT next week and am looking for any question bank info that anyone may have.
Thanks
Cam
Great Cam! How did your exam go and what materials did you use? I'm writing the AIRAT next week.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#17 Post by youhavecontrol » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 pm

Best advice I have is to write down and commit to memory all the licensing requirements and privileges from PSTAR to Group 1, as well as the Class 4-1 requirements and privileges. Because the exam you will be writing covers both Class 2 and 1, there's a lot of questions about CFI responsibilities and privileges, plus rules about flight school operation. I jotted them down in short-form and covered the answers with a paper, as I tried to recall them one-by-one in the study book I made up.

Also included are standard questions from the FIG about learning factors and teaching methods, plus questions about aerodynamics and flight theory... which are pretty basic class 3/4 stuff.

One of the hardest questions I got was asking me how much CPL Aeroplane groundschool the holder of a CPL Helicopter pilot was required to do.. pretty ridiculous stuff to be expected to memorize. I haven't seen any helicopter pilots come bursting through the door demanding to know such information on the spot just yet.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#18 Post by sky_ruler » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:58 pm

youhavecontrol wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 pm
Best advice I have is to write down and commit to memory all the licensing requirements and privileges from PSTAR to Group 1, as well as the Class 4-1 requirements and privileges. Because the exam you will be writing covers both Class 2 and 1, there's a lot of questions about CFI responsibilities and privileges, plus rules about flight school operation. I jotted them down in short-form and covered the answers with a paper, as I tried to recall them one-by-one in the study book I made up.

Also included are standard questions from the FIG about learning factors and teaching methods, plus questions about aerodynamics and flight theory... which are pretty basic class 3/4 stuff.

One of the hardest questions I got was asking me how much CPL Aeroplane groundschool the holder of a CPL Helicopter pilot was required to do.. pretty ridiculous stuff to be expected to memorize. I haven't seen any helicopter pilots come bursting through the door demanding to know such information on the spot just yet.
Thanks for the reply. Do you have any of the study materials still with you by any chance?
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#19 Post by youhavecontrol » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:45 am

sky_ruler wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:58 pm
youhavecontrol wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 pm
Best advice I have is to write down and commit to memory all the licensing requirements and privileges from PSTAR to Group 1, as well as the Class 4-1 requirements and privileges. Because the exam you will be writing covers both Class 2 and 1, there's a lot of questions about CFI responsibilities and privileges, plus rules about flight school operation. I jotted them down in short-form and covered the answers with a paper, as I tried to recall them one-by-one in the study book I made up.

Also included are standard questions from the FIG about learning factors and teaching methods, plus questions about aerodynamics and flight theory... which are pretty basic class 3/4 stuff.

One of the hardest questions I got was asking me how much CPL Aeroplane groundschool the holder of a CPL Helicopter pilot was required to do.. pretty ridiculous stuff to be expected to memorize. I haven't seen any helicopter pilots come bursting through the door demanding to know such information on the spot just yet.
Thanks for the reply. Do you have any of the study materials still with you by any chance?
Everything I do have was hand-written in my notebook, but it came directly from the CARS. I found the best way to remember it was to write my own short-hand version of it. I'd recommend doing the same in your own writing, so it's written the way you prefer to reference. Besides, you can't read my writing, haha.

The study guide from TC will give you all you need to know, plus where to find it:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... -6504.html
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#20 Post by C-GOYR » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:12 pm

Anyone wrote the exam recently and wanna share their experience? What study material did you use? Also if anyone has done the class 2 ride recently I'd like some info on the ground portion please.

thanks in advance.
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Re: AIRAT - Experience

#21 Post by youhavecontrol » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:38 am

C-GOYR wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:12 pm
Anyone wrote the exam recently and wanna share their experience? What study material did you use? Also if anyone has done the class 2 ride recently I'd like some info on the ground portion please.

thanks in advance.
For the ground portion, you can expect some general questions about the responsibilities and privileges of a Class 2 rating, acting as a CFI or a supervising instructor, where and how to write comments about flight recommends and solo recommends under direct supervision (in the PTR), and some ways to address different student learning behaviours/problems (according to the FIG). Then, you will be given a scenario where the examiner will tell you what his last flight lesson was and you have to come up with the next appropriate briefing and flight lesson to conduct in the air. Remember to reference the FIG lesson plans for what you will be expected to teach next based on what he says he's already covered.

I just did my renewal last week for the Class 2.
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