Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

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digits_
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#26 Post by digits_ » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:32 am

dhc# wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:29 am
Things seem quiet now, but is it the "calm before the storm" type of scenario in Canada ?
Have you seen the recent flow of job ads on avcanada in the last 2 weeks? Would hardly call it quiet...
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#27 Post by tps8903 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:52 pm

EVAS gave all pilots a 2 year pay bump on their pay scale outside of collective agreement negotiations.

http://www.unifor2002.org/getattachment ... print.aspx
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#28 Post by Heliian » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:38 pm

Where's all the people saying that the pilot shortage isn't real and just made up by flight schools to sell more licences?

You had an idea of what pay was like when you started, why complain now?

Pay will go up only as a last resort, don't hold your breath.

If anything they'll just condense the payscales to suit their needs.

It's like every other industry that is modernizing, less work=less pay, for the workers at least.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#29 Post by jg24 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:04 am

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Also, let's not forget that any foreigner who completes their flight training in Canada (even if it's just an instructor rating, with CPL done at home*) has a clear path to residency via the 3-year post-graduation work permit.

*See https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-re ... ility.html and scroll down to "Flight Instructors".
And your point is?
CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:07 pm
Does anyone think there will be a US-style correction for pay at the regional level? I imagine that the regionals would begin hiring at regulatory minimums (250TT) before substantially increasing pay. Thoughts?
Don't think there will be anytime soon.

digits_ wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:23 pm


Well if there is a bond and they pay their bond, there should be no guilt felt by the pilot or anger by the management that a pilot leaves, even the day of his ppc. That's the contract that was in place with the necessary "fines" if it is broken.

On the other hand, if there is no bond and you do that, then you are a big asshole yes.

Regarding pay: it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If the pay is shitty because everyone leaves anyway, then, well, everyone will leave. A lot more people will stay at 703/704 if pay and schedule is good, especially people living outside of major cities, pilots with some "different" priorities (eg home every night on a small plane vs hotels on a big jet), etc.

Well said. A lot of people will stay at their 703/704 jobs for the better lifestyle than commuting all the time and being home one day a week working the big shiny tin. BUT, at the moment, I think the shortage causes a lot of movement, and people are taking advantage of it, some to get better pay, some to get to the bigger type, and others willing to take the paycut but get to be home to see their kids more often. At this stage there's so much movement, I don't think pay is the main reason for most people moving.


Overall, I don't think pay will go up anytime too soon. EVERY single regional and major 703/704 operator started 'partnering' with various FTUs to provide a pathway program from student/instructor to FO position. This has been a major trend in the last year, and so long as the companies have sources to feed from for pilots, there will be no incentive to increase pay to attract potential employees.
digits_ wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:32 am
dhc# wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:29 am
Things seem quiet now, but is it the "calm before the storm" type of scenario in Canada ?
Have you seen the recent flow of job ads on avcanada in the last 2 weeks? Would hardly call it quiet...
Yup, definitely not quiet, FTUs, 703/704s and regionals are all posting daily for pilot/instructor positions.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#30 Post by 7507 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:08 am

When you have these regionals teaming up with all these FTUs to provide them with their first officers the pay will never go up until we say no to the job but that will never happen.

We're past the point of no return and it's a shame how Georgian gets away with paying you $29,500 are you frigging kidding me?
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#31 Post by jg24 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:34 am

7507 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:08 am
When you have these regionals teaming up with all these FTUs to provide them with their first officers the pay will never go up until we say no to the job but that will never happen.

We're past the point of no return and it's a shame how Georgian gets away with paying you $29,500 are you frigging kidding me?
Exactly. Pilot shortage, so a couple companies start to partner up with FTUs to get pools to pick from at their pleasure. In return, they can also keep the pay where they want to since no 22 year old kid is gonna complain if offered a Dash or CRJ position right out of flight school. They'll take it without a fuss. Some instructors might exercises a little more PDM, but those that want to fly the big tin for AC will likely not say no. It allows them to skip the 'northern' route too.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#32 Post by 7507 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am

jg24 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:34 am
7507 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:08 am
When you have these regionals teaming up with all these FTUs to provide them with their first officers the pay will never go up until we say no to the job but that will never happen.

We're past the point of no return and it's a shame how Georgian gets away with paying you $29,500 are you frigging kidding me?
Exactly. Pilot shortage, so a couple companies start to partner up with FTUs to get pools to pick from at their pleasure. In return, they can also keep the pay where they want to since no 22 year old kid is gonna complain if offered a Dash or CRJ position right out of flight school. They'll take it without a fuss. Some instructors might exercises a little more PDM, but those that want to fly the big tin for AC will likely not say no. It allows them to skip the 'northern' route too.

Exactly we've become the laughing stock out there, you're right no 22 year old kid living with mom and dad is going to say no to low.wages as long as they gain hours and move on.

So since let's face it , there is no hope for livable salaries due to the above there's nothing we can do but take it up the you know what!!

Better to fly for fun or instruct on the side and do something else full time.

I'm tired about talking stupid low.wages since nothing is done about it.

We have become frigging wimps! !
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#33 Post by C.W.E. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:11 pm

There has never been a pilot shortage in Canada.

The requirement to get a flying job is have a commercial license and there is no shortage of licensed pilots.

The wages are driven by supply and demand.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#34 Post by Zaibatsu » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:26 pm

In certain sectors there certainly is a shortage.

If you’re dealing with 703/704 contract requirements like contrails or medevac there is an acute shortage. Anyone who meets those qualifications for a King Air or 1900 job can go straight into a Dash or RJ for a regional.

The regionals solution is to lower experience requirements, but how long is it going to be before we see accidents or incidents which will force us to have higher minimum requirements like the US, and along with it, higher pay?
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#35 Post by 7507 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:00 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:11 pm
There has never been a pilot shortage in Canada.

The requirement to get a flying job is have a commercial license and there is no shortage of licensed pilots.

The wages are driven by supply and demand.
Then why is everyone saying there is a pI lot shortage?

Oh because the wages are slave labor wages and companies can't find or fill them with pilots that want to starve hence their desperation for pilots.

What if everybody said no to getting that job what would these companies do?

So there isn't a shortage out there, ok.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#36 Post by Cat Driver » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:04 pm

What if everybody said no to getting that job what would these companies do?
They would either offer more money or park airplanes.

Are any companies doing that yet?
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#37 Post by 7507 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:06 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:04 pm
What if everybody said no to getting that job what would these companies do?
They would either offer more money or park airplanes.

Are any companies doing that yet?

The majority is obviously only thinking about themselves, the pilot profession in this country is beyond a joke .
How do guys work 10 or 14 straight days like 10 hours a day!!
It's hard not to laugh of what we have become, too funny.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#38 Post by C.W.E. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:15 pm

It's hard not to laugh of what we have become, too funny.
What you have become?

It has been like this ever since I can remember.

Flying is a passion not a profession for those starting out and getting paid anything is a bonus.

And judging by the way things still are I don't see anything changing soon.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#39 Post by DanWEC » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:33 pm

As has been mentioned, with airlines securing streaming, and just reducing hour requirements, pay won't go up.

As long as there's room for hours to keep going down, there is no pressure on wages whatsoever, therefore there is no real shortage in that sense.

Pay will only go up once the hour requirements bottom out.... but then..... how long before McKenna lobbies TC for 100 hour 705 pilots??
Maybe insurance companies will be our savior? Until one gets bought by an airline...
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#40 Post by contactapproved » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:47 pm

trey kule wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:52 pm
A lot more people will stay at 703/704 if pay and schedule is good, especially people living outside of major cities, pilots with some "different" priorities (eg home every night on a small plane vs hotels on a big jet), etc.

On what basis do you make such a claim?
A few work friends and I are a prime example of this...Young families for a lot of us, working for a good smaller 703 outfit. Bosses recognize the shortage and have set a trend of big wage boosts every 6-8 months with incentives thrown in to boot. I believe my salary has roughly gone up 40-50% already from what is was a year and a half ago, and it wasn't too shabby back then either. Ive worked an average of maybe 10 days each month...some short, some longer and the T4 will easily smash 6 figures this year. Our management has basically made it incredibly hard (in a good way) to leave the lifestyles they've set up for us. Other than maybe a couple captains that won't lose the airline bug no matter how much money and good scheduling you throw at them, the bosses have done a damn good job of keeping us all around for a while and I applaud them for that. I have no intention of leaving the company as it sets me up with a lifestyle that really would be hard to match anywhere else in the country. So there is some basis to that claim, although it seems rare in Canada at the moment.
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Re: Since this "Pilot Shortage" started, has pay gone up at any regional or major airline?

#41 Post by tps8903 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:05 am

contactapproved wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:47 pm
trey kule wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:52 pm
A lot more people will stay at 703/704 if pay and schedule is good, especially people living outside of major cities, pilots with some "different" priorities (eg home every night on a small plane vs hotels on a big jet), etc.

On what basis do you make such a claim?
A few work friends and I are a prime example of this...Young families for a lot of us, working for a good smaller 703 outfit. Bosses recognize the shortage and have set a trend of big wage boosts every 6-8 months with incentives thrown in to boot. I believe my salary has roughly gone up 40-50% already from what is was a year and a half ago, and it wasn't too shabby back then either. Ive worked an average of maybe 10 days each month...some short, some longer and the T4 will easily smash 6 figures this year. Our management has basically made it incredibly hard (in a good way) to leave the lifestyles they've set up for us. Other than maybe a couple captains that won't lose the airline bug no matter how much money and good scheduling you throw at them, the bosses have done a damn good job of keeping us all around for a while and I applaud them for that. I have no intention of leaving the company as it sets me up with a lifestyle that really would be hard to match anywhere else in the country. So there is some basis to that claim, although it seems rare in Canada at the moment.
Could you tell us where you work?

It sounds like your company is one of the few that deserves a pat on the back.
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