A President’s Message and a must read

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Rowdy
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#26 Post by Rowdy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:21 pm

Its been an employers market for way too long. All the managerial folk left over from the nineties and early oughts are still under the auspice that they can do whatever they want, and if they can't, they'll complain to the public and the political parties.

We all know this.. money talks!
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#27 Post by Dry Guy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:22 pm

Pasco has an inflight magazine? wtf
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#28 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:54 pm

For one there is no pilot shortage, just a pilot PAY shortage.

For two I like how he worded it, what a spineless whimp, would have had more respect, not that I have any to start with lol, if he would have just nutted up and said flat out, "call your government representative and ask that your pilot gets less rest".


They don't care about safety for the pax, or the quality of life for their pilots, he can ether pay up or fly the plane himself for all I care.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#29 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:02 pm

modi13 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:21 pm
It sounds like this is largely a problem of Pasco's own making; I, too, applied to one of their captain postings from a couple of months ago, and I never heard anything. I met all the requirements they were asking for, and I even have a current left-seat PPC on one of the aircraft they operate, but not so much as an interview. It's hard to feel empathy for a company that doesn't seem to even be making the smallest of efforts to crew their airplanes, especially when they're taking on a huge new contract.
Could it be that they are simply creating a bank of qualified applicants, for when they begin link operations? There have been weekly PASCO postings for a while now. Has anybody actually started the evaluation process?
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#30 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:54 pm
Pay pilots a livable and fair wage (not the $30k for FO or $50k for capt bs)in accordance with our education and experience levels if you plan on retaining your pilots
Is there a minimum education level now to get a Commercial or ATPL?

If so what is the education level?

Or do you mean a five thousand hour pilot with a degree in something should be paid more than a five thousand hour pilot with no post secondary education?
Lol, "education" you mean you'd be more impressed with an applicant with a masters in lesbian dance theory, than someone with EXPERINCE?? Also living in a college down, making it through flight training and into that first job is far more impressive than most of the graduate programs I see, even from the higher end private universities.

Reminds me of those third world countries who are all about rank and uniforms and "flair", but EXPERINCE isn't that big of a deal.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#31 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm
Lol, "education" you mean you're be more impressed with a applicant with a masters in lesbian dance theory, than someone with EXPERINCE?? Also living in a college down, making it through flight training and into that first job is far more impressive than most of the graduate programs I see, even from the higher end private universities.

Reminds me of those third world countries who are all about rank and uniforms and "flair", but EXPERINCE isn't that big of a deal.
Completion of a college or university degree implies that one is hardworking and capable of seeing through a large and difficult commitment. Furthermore, it implies that one is a strong learner. It also entails learning how to communicate properly using the English language. The fact that your post contains several spelling and grammatical errors detracts strongly from the point you are trying to convey. I do not mean to be rude, but what you have written cannot be taken seriously in its current form.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#32 Post by Loner » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:45 pm

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm
Lol, "education" you mean you're be more impressed with a applicant with a masters in lesbian dance theory, than someone with EXPERINCE?? Also living in a college down, making it through flight training and into that first job is far more impressive than most of the graduate programs I see, even from the higher end private universities.

Reminds me of those third world countries who are all about rank and uniforms and "flair", but EXPERINCE isn't that big of a deal.
Completion of a college or university degree implies that one is hardworking and capable of seeing through a large and difficult commitment. Furthermore, it implies that one is a strong learner. It also entails learning how to communicate properly using the English language. The fact that your post contains several spelling and grammatical errors detracts strongly from the point you are trying to convey. I do not mean to be rude, but what you have written cannot be taken seriously in its current form.
Dear Professor CdnPilotSalary,
Do you really believe what you’re writing?
:lol:
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#33 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:55 pm

Loner wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:45 pm
Dear Professor CdnPilotSalary,
Do you really believe what you’re writing?
:lol:
Yes, I do. And so does Air Canada, the Canadian military, and every major U.S. airline.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#34 Post by pilotidentity » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:34 pm

The weekly job posts looking for pilots looks like part of their fight against the fatigue rules. We can't find pilots and look how hard we try... we even went so far as to ask our passengers if they know any pilots. Maybe I am wrong. I wish them well with the search.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#35 Post by bigEh » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:35 pm

Man. This really bothers me. PASCO is advertising all the time for openings and from what I have heard they were (and are?) a good company to work for. And I have often thought it would be great to head back to the lower mainland for work. But again and again, I come to the idea of making $35000 living in Vancouver. I made more than that flying a 172 my first year. If they would up the salary, offer retention bonuses (rather than tying pilots down with a bond) I am sure they would have a much bigger pool of candidates. And to complain like somehow the company can't make it work. The answer is so simple. Pay more, offer more.
I just don't understand how they don't see this.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#36 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:03 pm

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm
Lol, "education" you mean you're be more impressed with a applicant with a masters in lesbian dance theory, than someone with EXPERINCE?? Also living in a college down, making it through flight training and into that first job is far more impressive than most of the graduate programs I see, even from the higher end private universities.

Reminds me of those third world countries who are all about rank and uniforms and "flair", but EXPERINCE isn't that big of a deal.
Completion of a college or university degree implies that one is hardworking and capable of seeing through a large and difficult commitment. Furthermore, it implies that one is a strong learner. It also entails learning how to communicate properly using the English language. The fact that your post contains several spelling and grammatical errors detracts strongly from the point you are trying to convey. I do not mean to be rude, but what you have written cannot be taken seriously in its current form.
Lol, you actually believe that crap? And are you really so naive as to think the manner most people text or post to these boards from their smart phones reflects how they would construct their CV or anything formal? Guess education and intelligence are really not linked eh?

If you want to talk about hardworking and seeing something through, I'll hold a ATP to a much higher regard than most university programs grads.

As for me, I had a college degree before my peers graduated college, however secondary education isn't what it was in our parents generation, remeber college is a product, unless you're going to be getting a good return on that investment, getting that degree can actually is far from impressive.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#37 Post by Tanker299 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:16 pm

A degree does not make you a better person or mean you are dedicated. They mean you spent money, took tests and got a piece of paper. In today's world post secondary is just cleaning up the mess made by parents who think their kids are all special and can't fail at anything. This is for some the first time they will be told no or have a failure. Kids are just not ready at 20 anymore. My wife has 3 degrees one being a masters and makes the same as I do and I will eventually earn more. My siblings all have degrees and again nothing. My friends have degrees masters and PHDs and only one is doing what he set out to do. Some people even hide in academia because they will never get along in the real world. My cousins GF at 39 has a PHd but went back to school for her second masters program because here other masters and phd did nothing for her? Or maybe she is not as capable as those degrees say she should be. I even applied for a degree at a reputable physical university here in Canada and when I applied they said I should be applying for a masters. Education does not have to come from a university, there was a syllabus, exams and requirements to meet with some sort of recognized body.

So we don't all have great grammar or give a rats arse on an Internet forum. That's all ya got to discredit someone and make your self feel more better, how someone finger bangs their keyboard.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#38 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:15 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:03 pm
Lol, you actually believe that crap? And are you really so naive as to think the manner most people text or post to these boards from their smart phones reflects how they would construct their CV or anything formal? Guess education and intelligence are really not linked eh?

If you want to talk about hardworking and seeing something through, I'll hold a ATP to a much higher regard than most university programs grads.

As for me, I had a college degree before my peers graduated college, however secondary education isn't what it was in our parents generation, remeber college is a product, unless you're going to be getting a good return on that investment, getting that degree can actually is far from impressive.
Seems like I've struck a chord here. SuperchargedRS, I'm not saying that you're stupid or that I'm better than you. For all I know you could have a PhD. I was just pointing out that it was ironic that the comment you made discrediting education was filled with typos and grammatical errors.

However, I don't agree that tertiary education is useless, as you claim. I got a great education from the university I attended. And most of my classmates are more intelligent and got better jobs than my peers that did not attend university.

Overall, do you think that the aviation industry is better off with a more educated pilot workforce, or a less educated one?
Tanker299 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:16 pm
A degree does not make you a better person or mean you are dedicated. They mean you spent money, took tests and got a piece of paper. In today's world post secondary is just cleaning up the mess made by parents who think their kids are all special and can't fail at anything. This is for some the first time they will be told no or have a failure. Kids are just not ready at 20 anymore. My wife has 3 degrees one being a masters and makes the same as I do and I will eventually earn more. My siblings all have degrees and again nothing. My friends have degrees masters and PHDs and only one is doing what he set out to do. Some people even hide in academia because they will never get along in the real world. My cousins GF at 39 has a PHd but went back to school for her second masters program because here other masters and phd did nothing for her? Or maybe she is not as capable as those degrees say she should be. I even applied for a degree at a reputable physical university here in Canada and when I applied they said I should be applying for a masters. Education does not have to come from a university, there was a syllabus, exams and requirements to meet with some sort of recognized body.

So we don't all have great grammar or give a rats arse on an Internet forum. That's all ya got to discredit someone and make your self feel more better, how someone finger bangs their keyboard.
You're right, it doesn't make me a better person. Maybe university was easy for you ... but myself, and most of my friends, found university level sciences to be quite difficult. Personally, my degree took a great deal of grit and hard work. I'm proud of my accomplishment -- and I certainly don't think that my time in university was useless.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#39 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:50 am

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:15 am
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:03 pm
Lol, you actually believe that crap? And are you really so naive as to think the manner most people text or post to these boards from their smart phones reflects how they would construct their CV or anything formal? Guess education and intelligence are really not linked eh?

If you want to talk about hardworking and seeing something through, I'll hold a ATP to a much higher regard than most university programs grads.

As for me, I had a college degree before my peers graduated college, however secondary education isn't what it was in our parents generation, remeber college is a product, unless you're going to be getting a good return on that investment, getting that degree can actually is far from impressive.
Seems like I've struck a chord here. SuperchargedRS, I'm not saying that you're stupid or that I'm better than you. For all I know you could have a PhD. I was just pointing out that it was ironic that the comment you made discrediting education was filled with typos and grammatical errors.

However, I don't agree that tertiary education is useless, as you claim. I got a great education from the university I attended. And most of my classmates are more intelligent and got better jobs than my peers that did not attend university.

Overall, do you think that the aviation industry is better off with a more educated pilot workforce, or a less educated one?
Tanker299 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:16 pm
A degree does not make you a better person or mean you are dedicated. They mean you spent money, took tests and got a piece of paper. In today's world post secondary is just cleaning up the mess made by parents who think their kids are all special and can't fail at anything. This is for some the first time they will be told no or have a failure. Kids are just not ready at 20 anymore. My wife has 3 degrees one being a masters and makes the same as I do and I will eventually earn more. My siblings all have degrees and again nothing. My friends have degrees masters and PHDs and only one is doing what he set out to do. Some people even hide in academia because they will never get along in the real world. My cousins GF at 39 has a PHd but went back to school for her second masters program because here other masters and phd did nothing for her? Or maybe she is not as capable as those degrees say she should be. I even applied for a degree at a reputable physical university here in Canada and when I applied they said I should be applying for a masters. Education does not have to come from a university, there was a syllabus, exams and requirements to meet with some sort of recognized body.

So we don't all have great grammar or give a rats arse on an Internet forum. That's all ya got to discredit someone and make your self feel more better, how someone finger bangs their keyboard.
You're right, it doesn't make me a better person. Maybe university was easy for you ... but myself, and most of my friends, found university level sciences to be quite difficult. Personally, my degree took a great deal of grit and hard work. I'm proud of my accomplishment -- and I certainly don't think that my time in university was useless.

A chord with me? no, frankly for you to offend me I'd have to care about your opinion, and if you got run over by a car tonight, or won the lotto, I'll still wake up and have breakfast just the same in the morning.
Your comment was just a stupid annoyance that i have from living in a the college town, funny how you were mentioning someone being better than someone and then said for all you know I could have a PHD...as if that bought and paid for degree has jack to do with your worth the world :lol:

The majority of bartenders around here have masters degrees, yet I have a 2 year and make significantly more money than most in my town.

Now we still have engineering degrees, people going to law school, getting their RN or MD, but for the majority of secondary education programs, it's a big circle jerk, a self licking ice cream cone of "education" lots of learning and very little doing, and you're often learning from someone who has never even professionally done what he or she is teaching.

Compare that to getting a ATP, that's done through experience, and experience is a very good, albeit unforgiving teacher.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#40 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:01 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:50 am
A chord with me? no, frankly for you to offend me I'd have to care about your opinion, and if you got run over by a car tonight, or won the lotto, I'll still wake up and have breakfast just the same in the morning.
Your comment was just a stupid annoyance that i have from living in a the college town, funny how you were mentioning someone being better than someone and then said for all you know I could have a PHD...as if that bought and paid for degree has jack to do with your worth the world :lol:

The majority of bartenders around here have masters degrees, yet I have a 2 year and make significantly more money than most in my town.

Now we still have engineering degrees, people going to law school, getting their RN or MD, but for the majority of secondary education programs, it's a big circle jerk, a self licking ice cream cone of "education" lots of learning and very little doing, and you're often learning from someone who has never even professionally done what he or she is teaching.

Compare that to getting a ATP, that's done through experience, and experience is a very good, albeit unforgiving teacher.
The comment about you possibly having a PhD was more to do with the "I'm not calling you stupid" part of the sentence, not about your worth as a person.
Your comment about PhDs is incorrect. A PhD is a 4 to 6+ year graduate degree requiring you to produce novel research in your field of study, culminating in a 100+ page thesis, which must be defended to an examination committee of 3 or 4 professors knowledgeable of your research. I know this for a fact because I was a PhD candidate at one point in my life. I'm not going to talk about why that didn't work out, but nevertheless, you are wrong.

It's clear we have very different views on tertiary education and I don't want to derail this thread further, so let's just end it here. Have a good evening.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#41 Post by eyebrow737 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:18 am

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm
Lol, "education" you mean you're be more impressed with a applicant with a masters in lesbian dance theory, than someone with EXPERINCE?? Also living in a college down, making it through flight training and into that first job is far more impressive than most of the graduate programs I see, even from the higher end private universities.

Reminds me of those third world countries who are all about rank and uniforms and "flair", but EXPERINCE isn't that big of a deal.
Completion of a college or university degree implies that one is hardworking and capable of seeing through a large and difficult commitment. Furthermore, it implies that one is a strong learner. It also entails learning how to communicate properly using the English language. The fact that your post contains several spelling and grammatical errors detracts strongly from the point you are trying to convey. I do not mean to be rude, but what you have written cannot be taken seriously in its current form.
You went to University? You know words? You have the best words?

Considering that you are on a pilot forum, putting down people without degrees considering most pilots don't have one, sure shows that you were not taught any common sense.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#42 Post by LCflyguy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:25 am

I also applied and I far exceed the Captain qualifications, never heard a thing either.....Thats a pretty cheeky column he wrote though, asking their customers to petition against the safety of our industry :shock:
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#43 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:00 am

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:01 am

The comment about you possibly having a PhD was more to do with the "I'm not calling you stupid" part of the sentence, not about your worth as a person.
Your comment about PhDs is incorrect. A PhD is a 4 to 6+ year graduate degree requiring you to produce novel research in your field of study, culminating in a 100+ page thesis, which must be defended to an examination committee of 3 or 4 professors knowledgeable of your research. I know this for a fact because I was a PhD candidate at one point in my life. I'm not going to talk about why that didn't work out, but nevertheless, you are wrong.

It's clear we have very different views on tertiary education and I don't want to derail this thread further, so let's just end it here. Have a good evening.
Oh boy, you actually think a degree indicates intelligence? I mean it proves you're not like a paint chip eating idiot, but that's about it, if you have the money and the time and put in a half arse effort you can get about any degree you want.

As for the "peer review" yeah those "peers" are 90% just part of the self licking ice cream cone of education, they have never done anything outside of academia, they are talking reviewing ideas that they only know about from books and from their professors who probably never actually worked the said field ether.

I'll take the word of a man who's actually done the work with a "lesser" degree over that of a double PHD academic.

BTW some of the most comfy living people I know went to 2 year or under trade school and started their own business, one guy has like 8-10 welding trucks rolling around job sites, he spot checks their work, bids jobs, but spends most of his time skydiving, tossing money around and living life up, like me he has a few toys, nice house, all paid for free and clear, most of the PHDs I know around here are renters.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#44 Post by C.W.E. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:23 am

Who will be the better pilot, someone who has sat in a class room for ten years or someone who has flown an airplane for a living for ten years?
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#45 Post by AvifiskAlly » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:27 am

C.W.E. wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:23 am
Who will be the better pilot, someone who has sat in a class room for ten years or someone who has flown an airplane for a living for ten years?
Depends on the person not the experience or education
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#46 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:36 am

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:27 am
C.W.E. wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:23 am
Who will be the better pilot, someone who has sat in a class room for ten years or someone who has flown an airplane for a living for ten years?
Depends on the person not the experience or education

:lol:

Dude, are you drunk?

So depending on the person the guy who sat in a classroom for 10 years is going to out fly the guy with 10 years EXPERINCE behind the stick? Wow...hey I got some prime real estate in Florida I'll sell ya if too lol
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#47 Post by sampsonmcd » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:39 am

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:02 pm
Could it be that they are simply creating a bank of qualified applicants, for when they begin link operations? There have been weekly PASCO postings for a while now. Has anybody actually started the evaluation process?

I talked to some colleagues today. We determined we know 6 people who also applied for PASCO. 4 had ATPL's and the other two were just short. Only one of the guys got a call and he had 1400 hours, did a phone interview and never heard back. Shortly after he was hired to fly a Q.

So, just on this basis. 4 confirmed here. 6 others that I know of. Thats at least 10 qualified pilots applying and only one guy got a call.

I call bullshit on this PASCO propaganda. This is the same type of shit Georgian and Bearskin are pumping out to CBC. Oh we cant find pilots, its because they might change the fatigue regulations. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pilot-s ... -1.4451976

We need a strong voice in the media, they will fool the general public with this shit.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#48 Post by AvifiskAlly » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:36 am
AvifiskAlly wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:27 am
C.W.E. wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:23 am
Who will be the better pilot, someone who has sat in a class room for ten years or someone who has flown an airplane for a living for ten years?
Depends on the person not the experience or education

:lol:

Dude, are you drunk?

So depending on the person the guy who sat in a classroom for 10 years is going to out fly the guy with 10 years EXPERINCE behind the stick? Wow...hey I got some prime real estate in Florida I'll sell ya if too lol

I am saying that there are a lot of really bad pilots out there with 10 years of experience and a lot of bad pilots that are newer but have uni. Same for great pilots, same for OK pilots................ You talk about being a pilot like it is only about the technical skills, what about the rest of the job, what about the kind of person you are, work ethic, the list is endless. Experience is 1 item on the list so is education, neither makes you automatically better or worse.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#49 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:54 am

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 am
I am saying that there are a lot of really bad pilots out there with 10 years of experience and a lot of bad pilots that are newer but have uni. Same for great pilots, same for OK pilots................ You talk about being a pilot like it is only about the technical skills, what about the rest of the job, what about the kind of person you are, work ethic, the list is endless. Experience is 1 item on the list so is education, neither makes you automatically better or worse.

Baaaa ha ha ha ha!

Dude, WTF does a college kiddie know about work ethic?

And 10 years as a working pilot vs 10 years in the U, guess what one is still a working pilot the other is a academic.

This industry does a decent job of weeding people out, much better than many other professions.

And it's MUCH more than tech skills, with a decade of flying under your belt you have worked the personal aspect, the financial aspect, the stick and rudder and the not being a damn kid part lol

Funny thing is the insurance industry, you know those dudes that pay for your F' ups, they tend to value experience over a degree, never had one ask about my degree, but they are sure interested in everything from my hours to my ATP to my FSI pro cards, to years in, etc.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#50 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:59 am

There is no minimum educational requirements to get a pilots license as long as you can read and write and do basic math you can pass all the tests both written and practical flying skills.

Period.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

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