A President’s Message and a must read

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AvifiskAlly
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#51 Post by AvifiskAlly » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:01 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:54 am
AvifiskAlly wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 am
I am saying that there are a lot of really bad pilots out there with 10 years of experience and a lot of bad pilots that are newer but have uni. Same for great pilots, same for OK pilots................ You talk about being a pilot like it is only about the technical skills, what about the rest of the job, what about the kind of person you are, work ethic, the list is endless. Experience is 1 item on the list so is education, neither makes you automatically better or worse.

Baaaa ha ha ha ha!

Dude, WTF does a college kiddie know about work ethic?

And 10 years as a working pilot vs 10 years in the U, guess what one is still a working pilot the other is a academic.

This industry does a decent job of weeding people out, much better than many other professions.

And it's MUCH more than tech skills, with a decade of flying under your belt you have worked the personal aspect, the financial aspect, the stick and rudder and the not being a damn kid part lol

Funny thing is the insurance industry, you know those dudes that pay for your F' ups, they tend to value experience over a degree, never had one ask about my degree, but they are sure interested in everything from my hours to my ATP to my FSI pro cards, to years in, etc.

OK sure, all good then. HS grad hit the flight school and start working at 20. Sort of counter the argument about this being a profession on par with others when all you need is 12 months of flight school and a bunch of time in your logbook. I think we just solved the issue of pay, less formal education than a carpenter
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#52 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:32 pm

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:01 pm
OK sure, all good then. HS grad hit the flight school and start working at 20. Sort of counter the argument about this being a profession on par with others when all you need is 12 months of flight school and a bunch of time in your logbook. I think we just solved the issue of pay, less formal education than a carpenter

Might I ask how old you are and what certificate (CPL/ATP) do you hold?

You think the only education out there comes from the college industry??

Also you really need to check your chit on the trades dude, plenty of people in carpentry and welding and other trades who make waaaay more than west jet or AC pilots, or PHDs.

If you're taking professionals
"engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
"a professional boxer"
synonyms: paid, salaried, non-amateur, full-time"

Based off that, I'd say the more you're paid the more you can claim you're a "professional", I didn't see anything about a degree in that definition.

And I could give a rats ass if I'm not considered a "professional"' or "educated" because those titles don't put gas into my bought and paid for 185 amphib, vette, trucks, bikes, nor do they pay for my expensive single malt scotch or the Victoria secret card for my chick.

Enjoy your PHD, ramen and sloppy seconds.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#53 Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:39 pm

A degree is like a CPL, it's proof that you meet certain standards. There are lots of educated and intelligent people without degrees, and many highly professional pilots without a CPL, but it just makes it easier for employers if you have the bit of paper proving it.

One of the people posting here was thrown out of his aviation college program, which perhaps clouds his attitude.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#54 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:44 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:39 pm
A degree is like a CPL, it's proof that you meet certain standards. There are lots of educated and intelligent people without degrees, and many highly professional pilots without a CPL, but it just makes it easier for employers if you have the bit of paper proving it.

One of the people posting here was thrown out of his aviation college program, which perhaps clouds his attitude.

Yes that was me, and had that been in the states I'd have filed a suit against that scamming chit hole.

Should also be mentioned that the same guy had a college degree when he was 18, which he got during the same time he was a working full time and also a volunteer fire fighter.

Who is now a well paid ATP, so yeah, good thing they washed my ass out lol, actually I'd love to compare paychecks with the hacks who ran that program.

Money talks and BS walks.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#55 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:52 pm

Well there is one sure way to bring a bit more credibility to this discussion.

I left school after grade eight.

That meant I could read and write which allowed me to self educate myself in the profession I chose to work in which was aviation.

I spent fifty one years working as a pilot, mechanic and had a very successful career and by the end of my career I wouldn't even consider going to work for less than a thousand dollars a day.

Another interesting thing is I worked for some of the biggest businesses in the world and was never ever asked about my education or if I even had any.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#56 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:56 pm

Buuuut that's impossible cat, you didn't have a degree :lol:
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#57 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:00 pm

Buuuut that's impossible cat, you didn't have a degree :lol:
Isn't that amazing.

Lets see what the educated members of this group have to say about how I could possibly been successful without a degree. :prayer:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#58 Post by montado » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:27 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:52 pm
Another interesting thing is I worked for some of the biggest businesses in the world and was never ever asked about my education or if I even had any.
I think those days are long gone if you want to work in the 705 world.

I think I’ll take the safe balanced opinion. Education is good, experience is good.

But I’m Grrrrrreat! Hire me.

-Tony
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#59 Post by AvifiskAlly » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:36 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:00 pm
Buuuut that's impossible cat, you didn't have a degree :lol:
Isn't that amazing.

Lets see what the educated members of this group have to say about how I could possibly been successful without a degree. :prayer:
You're old. Sorry man that's it. Different times now. BTW so am I
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#60 Post by Tail-Chaser » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:43 pm

Jesus christ. This thread was going so well before it diverged into a dick measuring contest riddled with grammar and spelling errors.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#61 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:09 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:00 am
Oh boy, you actually think a degree indicates intelligence? I mean it proves you're not like a paint chip eating idiot, but that's about it, if you have the money and the time and put in a half arse effort you can get about any degree you want.

As for the "peer review" yeah those "peers" are 90% just part of the self licking ice cream cone of education, they have never done anything outside of academia, they are talking reviewing ideas that they only know about from books and from their professors who probably never actually worked the said field ether.

I'll take the word of a man who's actually done the work with a "lesser" degree over that of a double PHD academic.

BTW some of the most comfy living people I know went to 2 year or under trade school and started their own business, one guy has like 8-10 welding trucks rolling around job sites, he spot checks their work, bids jobs, but spends most of his time skydiving, tossing money around and living life up, like me he has a few toys, nice house, all paid for free and clear, most of the PHDs I know around here are renters.
In my field (computer science), most professors had industry partnerships, worked as consultants in the industry, and so on. I'm not sure where you're getting this information.

When young kids read this forum, possibly for guidance, are we wanting to leave the impression that post-secondary education is useless? Is that what you would teach your children?
The fact remains, regardless of whether you believe it to be right or wrong, that Air Canada, the Canadian military, and every major U.S. airline believes that pilots should have a university education.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#62 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:15 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:00 pm
Isn't that amazing.

Lets see what the educated members of this group have to say about how I could possibly been successful without a degree. :prayer:
I never claimed that a degree was a prerequisite to being successful. In fact, I know your reputation in this industry quite well and I'm not sure I'll ever be as successful as you. However, things have changed since you've started, Cat Driver. The truth is that a pilot starting today, with the major airlines as his or her goal, is at a significant disadvantage without a college or university education. Recently, a Delta recruiter was asked if the airline would ever drop their degree requirement. Their response? "Never". You can look at the Air Canada forums right now and read about all the unfortunate pilots who were PFO'd in this latest PML as their degree-holding colleagues with fewer hours got an offer. Will that change? Who knows. But I doubt it, at least for the foreseeable future.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#63 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:20 pm

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:15 pm
Cat Driver wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:00 pm
Isn't that amazing.

Lets see what the educated members of this group have to say about how I could possibly been successful without a degree. :prayer:
I never claimed that a degree was a prerequisite to being successful. In fact, I know your reputation in this industry quite well and I'm not sure I'll ever be as successful as you. However, things have changed since you've started, Cat Driver. The truth is that a pilot starting today, with the major airlines as his or her goal, is at a significant disadvantage without a college or university education. Recently, a Delta recruiter was asked if the airline would ever drop their degree requirement. Their response? "Never". You can look at the Air Canada forums right now and read about all the unfortunate pilots who were PFO'd in this latest PML as their degree-holding colleagues with fewer hours got an offer. Will that change? Who knows. But I doubt it, at least for the foreseeable future.

Many have, and the rest will follow with the pilot pay shortage.

Tail-Chaser wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:43 pm
Jesus christ. This thread was going so well before it diverged into a dick measuring contest riddled with grammar and spelling errors.
What grammar and spelling errors on a message board, maybe you're on the wrong board, perhaps a spelling board would be better for you, also perhaps you have tiny hands, I'm a male and have larger hands, so typing on a iPhone isn't always easy, forgive me if I lack your feminine features or care for things which in this setting don't mean a damn.

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:09 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:00 am
Oh boy, you actually think a degree indicates intelligence? I mean it proves you're not like a paint chip eating idiot, but that's about it, if you have the money and the time and put in a half arse effort you can get about any degree you want.

As for the "peer review" yeah those "peers" are 90% just part of the self licking ice cream cone of education, they have never done anything outside of academia, they are talking reviewing ideas that they only know about from books and from their professors who probably never actually worked the said field ether.

I'll take the word of a man who's actually done the work with a "lesser" degree over that of a double PHD academic.

BTW some of the most comfy living people I know went to 2 year or under trade school and started their own business, one guy has like 8-10 welding trucks rolling around job sites, he spot checks their work, bids jobs, but spends most of his time skydiving, tossing money around and living life up, like me he has a few toys, nice house, all paid for free and clear, most of the PHDs I know around here are renters.
In my field (computer science), most professors had industry partnerships, worked as consultants in the industry, and so on. I'm not sure where you're getting this information.

When young kids read this forum, possibly for guidance, are we wanting to leave the impression that post-secondary education is useless? Is that what you would teach your children?
The fact remains, regardless of whether you believe it to be right or wrong, that Air Canada, the Canadian military, and every major U.S. airline believes that pilots should have a university education.

I REALLY hope kids do read this, I NEVER said I was against education, I just think it's an investment and needs to demonstrate a good return. I also think it's straight stupid to think that a for profit school is the only place one can get a education, and looking down on the trades is very very foolish, especially if you want to lay it out on the table and measure, because most academics will come up quite short.
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Last edited by SuperchargedRS on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#64 Post by C.W.E. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:38 pm

I am well aware that companies like Air Canada give points for a degree but I personally have never had any desire to fly for an airline for the simple reason it is not the kind of flying I would want to do, it is far to structured in the paint by numbers mindset and far to boring.

By the way I learned I did not like airline flying from having done it and also was in management in airline flying.

For sure if you make it to command in a large airline the pay is quite good and generally speaking so is the security of employment.

However I personally would be bored to death if that was what I had to do day after day.

Conversely there are other kinds of flying that also pays very well and the security is as good as the services you offer.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#65 Post by Tail-Chaser » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:32 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:20 pm

What grammar and spelling errors on a message board, maybe you're on the wrong board, perhaps a spelling board would be better for you, also perhaps you have tiny hands, I'm a male and have larger hands, so typing on a iPhone isn't always easy, forgive me if I lack your feminine features or care for things which in this setting don't mean a damn.
Such wit.
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Re: A President’s Message and a must read

#66 Post by FICU » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:14 pm

Hi have a degree in skibumology... does that count for extra points?

I'm sure it has made me a better pilot in my 20+ years of flying machines.
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