BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

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CdnPilotsalary
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BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#1 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:21 pm

With class 3 and 4 flight instructors making $25-30 per hour on the west coast, flight instructors will soon be making less than a full-time minimum wage employee.
Don't forget to buy your instructor lunch once in a while, everyone.

Math below:
FT minimum wage employee: $15.20/hr * 40 hr/wk * 52 wk = $31,616 p.a.
Flight instructor, worst case: $25.00/hr * 800 hours / yr = $20,000 p.a.
Flight instructor, best case: $30.00/hr * 1000 hours / yr = $30,000 p.a.
I didn't include ground briefing pay as it's usually an insignificant amount.

Tough luck for those on the best coast.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#2 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:11 pm

Also on the list of pilots making less than minimum wage, is the GGN 1900 FO, with a starting salary of $29,500 p.a. according to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=122286
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#3 Post by Panama Jack » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:20 am

". . . but BC is The Best Place on Earth to live!"
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#4 Post by upnatem » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:56 am

If an instructor is only getting 800 to 1000 hrs per yr perhaps they should look at working at a busier school. Or a school that doesn't overhire number of instructors.

Of course there is no guaranteed hours due weather and whatnot, but that's fairly low yearly numbers.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#5 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:03 am

upnatem wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:56 am
If an instructor is only getting 800 to 1000 hrs per yr perhaps they should look at working at a busier school. Or a school that doesn't overhire number of instructors.

Of course there is no guaranteed hours due weather and whatnot, but that's fairly low yearly numbers.
Personally I wouldn't use a Instructor that's logging over 1k a year, to be a good instructor takes a bit out of you, and I question the quality of any instructor who considers 1k a year not flying enough.

Also if you're not logging a hour or so of ground per flight, you're not doing a very good job with the student or in business.

Don't think the issue is the hours, think it's what they are getting paid per hour
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#6 Post by Diadem » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:07 pm

For every hour of flying I do, I do another hour or so of work of various kinds, so if I fly 80 hours per month that's 160 hours of work, i.e. a normal job. I would expect it would be pretty similar for an instructor, if not moreso in terms of briefings, maintaining PTRs, chatting up potential customers, etc. If instructors have to fly more than 1000 hours per year and work more than 2000 hours per year just to break $30000, then maybe there's a reason no one wants to do it anymore. The problem isn't how busy the schools are.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#7 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:13 pm

upnatem wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:56 am
If an instructor is only getting 800 to 1000 hrs per yr perhaps they should look at working at a busier school. Or a school that doesn't overhire number of instructors.

Of course there is no guaranteed hours due weather and whatnot, but that's fairly low yearly numbers.
It would be very unlikely for a BC instructor to log over 1000 hours per year. The only good months are May-Sept. Dec-Jan, forget about it.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#8 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:15 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:03 am
Personally I wouldn't use a Instructor that's logging over 1k a year, to be a good instructor takes a bit out of you, and I question the quality of any instructor who considers 1k a year not flying enough.

Also if you're not logging a hour or so of ground per flight, you're not doing a very good job with the student or in business.

Don't think the issue is the hours, think it's what they are getting paid per hour
Usually, instructors get paid about 0.2 ground pay (at a significantly reduced rate) per lesson. Doesn't add up to much.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#9 Post by C.W.E. » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:20 pm

It is obvious that flight instructors are paid very little for flying instruction.

The question should be why?
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#10 Post by ant_321 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 pm

When I instructed on the east coast in 2010-11 I was making $25/hr and made $12000 in a year (punching 80+ hrs a week, waiting for good wx). The west coast probably gets more vfr days than the east coast but I think it would be difficult to bill anywhere near 1000 hrs.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#11 Post by CdnPilotsalary » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:16 pm

ant_321 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 pm
When I instructed on the east coast in 2010-11 I was making $25/hr and made $12000 in a year (punching 80+ hrs a week, waiting for good wx). The west coast probably gets more vfr days than the east coast but I think it would be difficult to bill anywhere near 1000 hrs.
Wow, $12,000? So an average duty pay of a little over $3 an hour?
How did you survive? Did you work another job?
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#12 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:43 pm

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:15 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:03 am
Personally I wouldn't use a Instructor that's logging over 1k a year, to be a good instructor takes a bit out of you, and I question the quality of any instructor who considers 1k a year not flying enough.

Also if you're not logging a hour or so of ground per flight, you're not doing a very good job with the student or in business.

Don't think the issue is the hours, think it's what they are getting paid per hour
Usually, instructors get paid about 0.2 ground pay (at a significantly reduced rate) per lesson. Doesn't add up to much.
Don't work for janky operators.

I started at like 35hr, billed regardless if I was in the air or the ground, this was a side job.

Next instructor gig was $25hr flight or air, got a 300ish spif for every student check ride pass, but my nice on airport house (single bedroom) was free complete with all utilities.

After that it was freelance $50hr cash or barter, same on the ground.

If they are paying you less for ground, or you're not spending about .5 pre and .5 post flight, you ain't doing it right.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#13 Post by CpnCrunch » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:13 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:43 pm
If they are paying you less for ground, or you're not spending about .5 pre and .5 post flight, you ain't doing it right.
0.5 pre and post for every flight is overkill.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#14 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:53 pm

If you're going to quote me do it properly at least.

ABOUT .5 was what I said.

And pre solo, between meet and greet, pre and post flight, and ground ops, logbook, see ya next time, etc, it's close to another billable hour all in.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#15 Post by ant_321 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:04 pm

CdnPilotsalary wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:16 pm
ant_321 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 pm
When I instructed on the east coast in 2010-11 I was making $25/hr and made $12000 in a year (punching 80+ hrs a week, waiting for good wx). The west coast probably gets more vfr days than the east coast but I think it would be difficult to bill anywhere near 1000 hrs.
Wow, $12,000? So an average duty pay of a little over $3 an hour?
How did you survive? Did you work another job?
3 guys in a 2 bedroom apartment, a side job (didn't sleep much during that year) and about $4k in leftover student loan money. Haha. When I got myself a turboprop job making $26k I felt rich.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#16 Post by C.W.E. » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:28 pm

If they are paying you less for ground, or you're not spending about .5 pre and .5 post flight, you ain't doing it right.
If you need that much ground instruction time you are not doing the flying part right....in my opinion of course.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#17 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:50 pm

If you're not giving that much ground you're not doing the flight instructor part right.

Look at aerobatics, airline, military, etc, much more time talking about what you're going to be doing and analyzing what you did than stick time, also it makes the stick time (the expensive part) yield more of a bang for your buck.

If you're not doing much work with your student outside of the airplane, you're short changing your student as well as your wallet. Also you're not really a instructor, just crash preventer who watches the Hobbs tick by for that "great" airline job.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#18 Post by CpnCrunch » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:00 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:50 pm
If you're not giving that much ground you're not doing the flight instructor part right.

Look at aerobatics, airline, military, etc, much more time talking about what you're going to be doing and analyzing what you did than stick time, also it makes the stick time (the expensive part) yield more of a bang for your buck.

If you're not doing much work with your student outside of the airplane, you're short changing your student as well as your wallet. Also you're not really a instructor, just crash preventer who watches the Hobbs tick by for that "great" airline job.
Speaking for myself, I think I got an average of about 0.4 to 0.5 of ground time per 1.5hr in the air. I was prepared for the lesson, so there was no need for a huge amount of ground time. The only exception was pre-CPL flight test prep.

To be honest I get a little pissed off at paying $50+/hr for lots of ground time with a 300hr instructor who is lacking knowledge. That's not to say that all 300hr instructors are useless, but there is a range of quality out there.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#19 Post by Shady McSly » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:05 pm

It's all becoming clear...
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#20 Post by C.W.E. » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:12 pm

I guess we just teach differently Supercharged, which is perfectly O.K. as teaching is a discipline that varies from person to person.

Ground briefing in the initial training for the issuance of a PPL will of course take more time than ground briefing once the student has grasped the basics and understands said basics.

But teaching PPL's in a flight school is for those beginning their flying career to get a job flying commercially and I did not stay in that part of teaching for very long.

However I taught advanced flying for decades and based my rates on flight time, I did not charge for any pre. or post flight time.

By the way my post flight briefing was mostly using the video record of the flight to point out where any mistakes had started and how to correct them.

If I was just a crash preventer and not a real flight instructor my clients didn't seem to mind because all my new clients were by referral from those I had crash prevented with.

And I did not short change my wallet because I charged either 250.00 Euro per flight hour or $250.00 USD per. hour depending where I was crash preventing.
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Last edited by C.W.E. on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#21 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:17 pm

I'll agree with you on the video, with gopros it's really improved analysis for post flight briefings
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#22 Post by C.W.E. » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:27 pm

For sure the video is unbeatable as a teaching tool.

You people are lucky to have the new modern video cameras, the fu..... abortions I used were a pain in the ass to set up but well worth the effort in the long run.

Same with teaching instrument flight.

Two stage amber is a pain in the ass to install and remove but well worth the effort because they could not cheat by looking around a hood and a hood is unorthodox period.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#23 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:53 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:50 pm
If you're not giving that much ground you're not doing the flight instructor part right.

Look at aerobatics, airline, military, etc, much more time talking about what you're going to be doing and analyzing what you did than stick time, also it makes the stick time (the expensive part) yield more of a bang for your buck.

If you're not doing much work with your student outside of the airplane, you're short changing your student as well as your wallet. Also you're not really a instructor, just crash preventer who watches the Hobbs tick by for that "great" airline job.
Some are like this. Often While surfing instagram on their phones.

Maybe that's only worth 30 bucks an hour. And maybe some are worth 100 bucks an hour.

As posted below a range of quality.

My unpopular opinion......
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#24 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:57 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:53 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:50 pm
If you're not giving that much ground you're not doing the flight instructor part right.

Look at aerobatics, airline, military, etc, much more time talking about what you're going to be doing and analyzing what you did than stick time, also it makes the stick time (the expensive part) yield more of a bang for your buck.

If you're not doing much work with your student outside of the airplane, you're short changing your student as well as your wallet. Also you're not really a instructor, just crash preventer who watches the Hobbs tick by for that "great" airline job.
Some are like this. Often While surfing instagram on their phones.

Maybe that's only worth 30 bucks an hour. And maybe some are worth 100 bucks an hour.

As posted below a range of quality.

My unpopular opinion......
If your instructor is doing something on his phone not related to your lesson, fire his ass.

Remember he works for you.
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Re: BC minimum wage to reach $15.20, meaning that BC flight instructors will soon make less than a minimum wage employee

#25 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:08 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:57 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:53 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:50 pm
If you're not giving that much ground you're not doing the flight instructor part right.

Look at aerobatics, airline, military, etc, much more time talking about what you're going to be doing and analyzing what you did than stick time, also it makes the stick time (the expensive part) yield more of a bang for your buck.

If you're not doing much work with your student outside of the airplane, you're short changing your student as well as your wallet. Also you're not really a instructor, just crash preventer who watches the Hobbs tick by for that "great" airline job.
Some are like this. Often While surfing instagram on their phones.

Maybe that's only worth 30 bucks an hour. And maybe some are worth 100 bucks an hour.

As posted below a range of quality.

My unpopular opinion......
If your instructor is doing something on his phone not related to your lesson, fire his ass.

Remember he works for you.
RS, I take it you're not running for Miss Congeniality on AV Can........ :mrgreen:
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