Avgas

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sunk
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Avgas

Post by sunk » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:03 am

What's going on with the avgas, I was told no avgas due to possible problems with the fuel.
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Air Ops
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Re: Avgas

Post by Air Ops » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 am

Where are you located? I have an e-mail which tells me that there is an "issue" with fuel distributed out of Calgary. No details, just a quarantine on all stocks delivered after 28 December.
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flyboy1963
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Re: Avgas

Post by flyboy1963 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:21 pm

Yes, hard to believe this isn't getting more attention. Here's what 'the supplier' said to our local pump operator....I've seen only local NOTAMS so far.....what the heck? 'Fuel not available til saturday' is hardly a good safety notice!!!!

We received notification from our fuel supplier that there is a Safety/Product Quality issue with any Avgas that was picked up at an Esso Terminal/Tank Farm/supply point from December 28th, 2017 onwards. All product loaded on or after this date is to be quarantined effective immediately until further details and instructions are provided. Vernon purchased a load of this fuel on January. 31, 2018. We are not yet aware how this will affect aircraft, so if you have purchased fuel in Vernon from Jan. 31, 2018 on, we recommend that you do not fly until further information is available.

The 100LLL Avgas station in Vernon has been turned off and will be out of service for an unknown amount of time until more information is provided by the supplier.

We are told by the supplier that this is a National Issue, and that this quarantine has affected many of BC and Alberta airports. Checking NOTAMS Kamloops, Kelowna, Vernon, Abbotsford to name a few are affected. I have emailed the supplier asking for clarification on how this will affect aircraft engines or flight.
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Chris M
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Re: Avgas

Post by Chris M » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:51 pm

https://copanational.org/en/2018/02/15/ ... arantined/
Avgas supplies across the country have been quarantined because of an unknown quality control problem with fuels delivered since late December. The quarantine means that many FBOs and airport fuel suppliers have closed their avgas pumps while a solution to the problem is found. FlightFuels spokesman Craig Tanselli told COPA Flight the problem originated with the Edmonton Esso refinery that produces all the avgas for the whole country. He said his company is checking inventories to see if there is any unaffected avgas that they can sell but for the time being there are no avgas sales. Many airports have issued NOTAMs advising they cannot sell avgas. Jet fuel is not affected. COPA is monitoring the situation and will provide updates as they become available.
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lownslow
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Re: Avgas

Post by lownslow » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:35 pm

Be a good time to be selling MOGAS STCs, eh?
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ohoh
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Re: Avgas

Post by ohoh » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:41 pm

Communication I received via e-mail
"Imperial has become aware that aviation gasoline picked up by wholesale customers at Strathcona refinery in Edmonton since Dec. 28, 2017 may have a product quality issue.
Please do not use or distribute this product. Our primary concern is that the product quality issue may cause interference with onboard fuel gauge sensors.
Imperial will make arrangements with you regarding future handling of this product, and we will provide more information as it becomes available.
We regret this inconvenience and appreciate your patience and understanding."
A phone call earlier today with a manager in production for Esso reinforced the do not use means grounded until further notice, being proactive for safety.
The same refinery supplies Shell apparently.
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dpm
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Re: Avgas

Post by dpm » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:20 pm

Is this mainly a problem in Western Canada? I've looked at NOTAMs for several airports in Ontario, Quebec, and New Brunswick, and don't see any fuel issues. The Rockcliffe Flying Club (CYRO) sent out a Facebook post reassuring everyone that their fuel is not quarantined, and it's business as usual.
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Re: Avgas

Post by 7ECA » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:38 pm

This is a Canada wide issue - all AvGas burners will be grounded due to Esso Edmonton dropping the ball. Esso's Edmonton refinery produces AvGas for all of Canada.

Just because you haven't seen a NOTAM covering your local area doesn't mean you'll be able to get fuel. This is gonna be a real shit show.
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dpm
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Re: Avgas

Post by dpm » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:09 pm

CYRO Ottawa/Rockcliffe has already checked and confirmed that they're not affected. Perhaps there are different supply chains leading into Eastern Canada, or perhaps the upstream suppliers still have a lot of older stock:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?stor ... 2963183587

In the worst case, I guess, I'd be making lots of 25-minute fuel hops from Ottawa down to Ogdensburg NY (KOGS) and keeping the customs people busy at both ends.

I'd also expect busy GA airports like CYKZ or CYHU to have posted NOTAMs by now if they had an issue. Smaller airports might take a while, of course.
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Last edited by dpm on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avgas

Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:11 pm

It's possible that some airports might get their avgas from the USA.
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dpm
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Re: Avgas

Post by dpm » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:15 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:11 pm
It's possible that some airports might get their avgas from the USA.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. The fact that the Edmonton refinery happens to send some Avgas east doesn't mean they supply all or most of it. It would make more sense to distributors to bring it up from OH, PA, NY, VT, ME, etc into Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes.
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dpm
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Re: Avgas

Post by dpm » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:32 pm

«Jerry Waugh, manager of the fixed-base operation of Capital Airways at Fredericton International Airport in New Brunswick told AOPA he had received a “confirmation email” from his fuel distributor advising him that his current inventory of avgas was safe, but that the distributor had received a “bad batch” of the fuel the previous day, placing future deliveries in question.»

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... s-shortage
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Re: Avgas

Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:13 pm

Our gas in the Yukon comes from the US. I can't see this turning into a huge crisis, they'll just have to truck US supply a little farther.
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Re: Avgas

Post by rookiepilot » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pm

Has to be Trumps fault. Somehow.
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who me ?
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Re: Avgas

Post by who me ? » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:06 pm

National NOTAM file

CYHQ
180001 CYHQ NATIONAL
CYHQ POTENTIAL QUALITY ISSUE OF FUEL 100LL (JET A NOT AFFECTED)
DISTRIBUTED BY IMPERIAL OIL (EXTENT UNKNOWN)
VERIFY LOCALLY FOR AVBL
1802160008 TIL APRX 1802231800
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Heliian
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Re: Avgas

Post by Heliian » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:42 pm

Interesting little tidbit about the fuel gauge issue. To me this sounds like they had an issue with something in the fuel that would throw off the capacitance and cause erroneous readings with capacitance probe fuel quantity systems. Water and other schmiglees could do it. It's also possible they failed to properly check after blending with who knows what.

But yeah, I could see the Americans having avgas deals now with all the new business.
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Re: Avgas

Post by PostmasterGeneral » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:28 pm

The “official” word was that the fuel failed conductivity tests, so yes it could cause issues with capacitance sensors or even be more susseptible to static electricity discharge.
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Re: Avgas

Post by dpm » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:33 am

Here's how it's playing out at my home airport (CYRO) talking with their local distributor:
We are told that one of the storage tanks is contaminated, and the other is not. This also is only affecting fuel from Esso (Canadian fuel) and should it run out from our current supplier we have contingencies in place to source fuel from another distributor, which sources it’s fuel from the US (non-contaminated fuel)
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Re: Avgas

Post by who me ? » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:00 am

EC,
Electrical Conductivity readings will go up if there is water in the fuel,
but I suspect that ethanol would do the same thing.

not my words, from another source
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Re: Avgas

Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:53 am

Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Avgas

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:08 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:53 am
Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??
I expect because it is such a low volume product Industry decided to consolidate all production in one place to make it economically viable. FWIW I was told the petroleum industry doesn’t even call call Avgas “gasoline” it is is referred to as a specialty chemical product.
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Re: Avgas

Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:42 am

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:08 am
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:53 am
Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??
I expect because it is such a low volume product Industry decided to consolidate all production in one place to make it economically viable. FWIW I was told the petroleum industry doesn’t even call call Avgas “gasoline” it is is referred to as a specialty chemical product.

Low volume compared to say auto fuel, but still more than enough of a need, especially in places most of Canada or Alaska, that one shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket.
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Re: Avgas

Post by PilotDAR » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:38 am

Back when I worked in the gas for airplanes business, I was told that avgas production was .025% of gasoline production, with all other product being conventional gasoline of some type. Though both fuels burn in spark ignition internal combustion engines, avgas is not "gasoline" in the conventional sense. So yes, it's a specialty fuel.

Gasoline is a blend of various chemicals, with tolerances for contaminants. Avgas is wholly one mixed chemical. When you spill gasoline on your hand, some of it will evaporate, but a thick, oily residue will be left on your skin. Whereas, avgas will evaporate entirely, 'cause it's all one chemical. I was told by a refiner decades back that there had been a case where 100,000 gallons of molasses had spoiled, and was no longer food safe. They were not allowed to "dump" it, so it was blended off into gasoline at a low enough concentration that it did not take the gasoline off spec for contaminates.
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Re: Avgas

Post by Broken Slinky » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:09 am

PilotDAR wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:38 am
Back when I worked in the gas for airplanes business, I was told that avgas production was .025% of gasoline production
Would bet that percentage is even lower. I was told that only 1% of the aviation fuel produced in Canada is AvGas, the other 99% is Jet A. Even that number seemed high to me based on the number of jets buzzing around compared to 100LL burners. Compare that to the number of Mogas burners stuck on the 401 any given day, could easily add another 0 to that number.
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Re: Avgas

Post by RevT » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:08 am
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:53 am
Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??
I expect because it is such a low volume product Industry decided to consolidate all production in one place to make it economically viable. FWIW I was told the petroleum industry doesn’t even call call Avgas “gasoline” it is is referred to as a specialty chemical product.
I used to work for a competitor of Imperial's. The "industry" didn't decide anything. The market is what it is and the individual companies in the space made their decisions accordingly. When I participated in strategy sessions, we always discussed whether we should get into Avgas (we called it "Avgas") but decided that it wasn't the best play for us. My former employer could decide differently tomorrow and I suspect other companies make the same types of decisions.
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