Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

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cdntous
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#26 Post by cdntous » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:32 pm

The only major that doesn't require a degree is AA if you go through an AAG wholly-owned subsidiary regional airline like Envoy.

Here's the catch: the AA WOs pay the least and have the worst conditions of any other regional airline ... and current calculations are putting the flow at 10+ years for a new hire starting today (sound familiar to anything here in Canada?).

The rest of the majors: Delta, United, Southwest, etc. all still require a four-year college degree. So does AA OTS.

So if you plan to immigrate to the U.S. you better damn well have a degree unless you want to end up at some trash LCC like Frontier, but who knows, you might still make more than an AC captain.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#27 Post by complexintentions » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:17 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:13 pm
Going to the states and being cheap labour, long run its going to drive wages down over there too, averages and all, much like the people of some of the higher tax lower freedom states / provinces who move to another place, and end up slowly turning it into the same crap hole they left.

When you make a mess in your room, do you sleep on the floor of your siblings room, or clean your own damn room up.
Wrong part of the analogy.

When your parents are abusive crackheads and take most of your paper route money away, do you stick around or go over to your friends house where his folks don't beat you and give you a large allowance?

I think you may have missed the point of going to the US - the US "cheap labourers" get paid more than the expensive help in Canada.

Labour mobility is a symptom of market conditions, not a cause.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#28 Post by RatherBeFlying » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:21 pm

Looks like supply and demand is at work.

There's a TN visa available for "NAFTA Professionals" with a degree. Unfortunately pilots are not in the list of professions. So getting a four year degree in anything might be a better deal than ramping in Norman Wells.

The problem with H1Bs is that that there's an annual lottery for 65,000 slots. And more applications than slots.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#29 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:40 pm

complexintentions wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:17 pm
Wrong part of the analogy.

When your parents are abusive crackheads and take most of your paper route money away, do you stick around or go over to your friends house where his folks don't beat you and give you a large allowance?

I think you may have missed the point of going to the US - the US "cheap labourers" get paid more than the expensive help in Canada.

Labour mobility is a symptom of market conditions, not a cause.
Oh you poor little baby, dude man up and take charge of your own life and quit being a friggin doormat, this is how the Canadian aviation industry got so screwed up.

I mean between this line of thinking, to all the people on this AVIATION forum who go out of their way to argue that pilots aren't even professional, or compare them to unskilled labor, I mean what the hell do you expect. Take some damn pride in yourselves, speak up, do something!

The only way the meek will ever "inherit" the earth is in 6' wood boxes.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#30 Post by cdntous » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:40 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:40 pm
Oh you poor little baby, dude man up and take charge of your own life and quit being a friggin doormat, this is how the Canadian aviation industry got so screwed up.

I mean between this line of thinking, to all the people on this AVIATION forum who go out of their way to argue that pilots aren't even professional, or compare them to unskilled labor, I mean what the hell do you expect. Take some damn pride in yourselves, speak up, do something!

The only way the meek will ever "inherit" the earth is in 6' wood boxes.
The person you are replying to is/was a senior WJ captain and probably makes 3x your salary. I'd like to point that out.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#31 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:28 am

cdntous wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:40 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:40 pm
Oh you poor little baby, dude man up and take charge of your own life and quit being a friggin doormat, this is how the Canadian aviation industry got so screwed up.

I mean between this line of thinking, to all the people on this AVIATION forum who go out of their way to argue that pilots aren't even professional, or compare them to unskilled labor, I mean what the hell do you expect. Take some damn pride in yourselves, speak up, do something!

The only way the meek will ever "inherit" the earth is in 6' wood boxes.
The person you are replying to is/was a senior WJ captain and probably makes 3x your salary. I'd like to point that out.
His paycheck means little to me, though he may have made more, I highly doubt it's 3x, besides I make enough to do what I like, also it's highly unlikely his WJ flying was anywhere near in the realm of the flying that I do.

All said, his comment was still that of a meek whiner.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#32 Post by digits_ » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:48 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:13 pm


If Canadians cared about their own country, they would un-tuck their manhood and take a stand, speak loud and be proud of their profession, walk the F' out for a few days, then go to the media and explain the conditions and pay, somehow I think the masses would be a little disturbed to know how little pay, rest, etc the pilots they are trusting their lives, and the lives of their children, get.

Going to the states and being cheap labour, long run its going to drive wages down over there too, averages and all, much like the people of some of the higher tax lower freedom states / provinces who move to another place, and end up slowly turning it into the same crap hole they left.

What will have more effect: annoying your employers for a week, and then have to run back to the same employers, because there are no other options in Canada, or leave "permanently" to go work in the US so they have to retrain new pilots and drive up costs that way?

Also, even if this company would be the worst paying company in the US, what does that mean? Even if every pilot is paid as a millionair, there is still going to be a company that pays the least. Doesn't mean it is bad pay or unfair working conditions.

Regarding the change, allow me to be a bit philosophical: "Be the change you want to see in the world". Start the movement to take a stand. If you have a point, others will follow.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#33 Post by BE20 Driver » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:33 am

I'm not sure I follow some of these arguments. If you're at a company and locked in half way through a 10 year collective agreement, what can you do other than vote with your feet?

Mexican farm labour is paid $1-2/hour to pick vegetables in Mexico. They're paid $5/hour in California. What nationality do you think staffs most of America's itinerant farm labour? I'll give you a hint, they'll soon have to cross a wall to get there. You can tell all of them that they should stay in Mexico in order to fix Mexican farm labour wages, but I think the only response you'll get from them is "estás loco."

Someone else pointed out that it's hard to be moral when you're hungry. By extension, it's also hard not to apply when there is such a large disparity in wages and the US carriers are so close.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#34 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:19 am

digits_ wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:48 am
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:13 pm


If Canadians cared about their own country, they would un-tuck their manhood and take a stand, speak loud and be proud of their profession, walk the F' out for a few days, then go to the media and explain the conditions and pay, somehow I think the masses would be a little disturbed to know how little pay, rest, etc the pilots they are trusting their lives, and the lives of their children, get.

Going to the states and being cheap labour, long run its going to drive wages down over there too, averages and all, much like the people of some of the higher tax lower freedom states / provinces who move to another place, and end up slowly turning it into the same crap hole they left.

What will have more effect: annoying your employers for a week, and then have to run back to the same employers, because there are no other options in Canada, or leave "permanently" to go work in the US so they have to retrain new pilots and drive up costs that way?

Also, even if this company would be the worst paying company in the US, what does that mean? Even if every pilot is paid as a millionair, there is still going to be a company that pays the least. Doesn't mean it is bad pay or unfair working conditions.

Regarding the change, allow me to be a bit philosophical: "Be the change you want to see in the world". Start the movement to take a stand. If you have a point, others will follow.

Annoying is all Canadians do, and even then they don't even really do that, I'm talking about make their voice felt, shut it the f' down, that will give you a place at the table.

It seems we are speaking a different language, just curious if you're a socialist or commie, or maybe just dramatic, but it's not millions, it's a free market, as in the US experienced pilots won't fly for peanuts so they are having to offer more and more until they hit a number that the market deems worthy of trade for their skills, as I said, I'd wager a ATP (as in real ATP) in a typed level aircraft should command 100k USD per year without bonuses.

And I am being the change I want to see in the world, you won't see me making less than that, flying for a low paying regional, or running away from my home.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#35 Post by cdntous » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:52 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:19 am
Annoying is all Canadians do, and even then they don't even really do that, I'm talking about make their voice felt, shut it the f' down, that will give you a place at the table.

It seems we are speaking a different language, just curious if you're a socialist or commie, or maybe just dramatic, but it's not millions, it's a free market, as in the US experienced pilots won't fly for peanuts so they are having to offer more and more until they hit a number that the market deems worthy of trade for their skills, as I said, I'd wager a ATP (as in real ATP) in a typed level aircraft should command 100k USD per year without bonuses.

And I am being the change I want to see in the world, you won't see me making less than that, flying for a low paying regional, or running away from my home.
So you think Johnny the FO making 40k/year at Jazz or Sarah the GGN FO getting paid 30k a year to fly the 1900 could make Chorus or GGN change their mind about pilot wages by staying home, when there are hundreds of 250-hour college cadets who would happily take their place the moment they leave? I bet I could find you 10 of those cadets who would agree to fly the RJ for free because they still get an allowance from their parents and live at home, and flying an RJ would look cool on their Instagram.

Besides, you think anyone at AC Express is going to jeopardize their flow to AC by telling off management? Get real
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#36 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:00 pm

cdntous wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:52 am
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:19 am
Annoying is all Canadians do, and even then they don't even really do that, I'm talking about make their voice felt, shut it the f' down, that will give you a place at the table.

It seems we are speaking a different language, just curious if you're a socialist or commie, or maybe just dramatic, but it's not millions, it's a free market, as in the US experienced pilots won't fly for peanuts so they are having to offer more and more until they hit a number that the market deems worthy of trade for their skills, as I said, I'd wager a ATP (as in real ATP) in a typed level aircraft should command 100k USD per year without bonuses.

And I am being the change I want to see in the world, you won't see me making less than that, flying for a low paying regional, or running away from my home.
So you think Johnny the FO making 40k/year at Jazz or Sarah the GGN FO getting paid 30k a year to fly the 1900 could make Chorus or GGN change their mind about pilot wages by staying home, when there are hundreds of 250-hour college cadets who would happily take their place the moment they leave? I bet I could find you 10 of those cadets who would agree to fly the RJ for free because they still get an allowance from their parents and live at home, and flying an RJ would look cool on their Instagram.

Get real

Not sure if you're a pilot, but you can't hire a guy and have him flying the same day.

Shutting down a regional for a week will make a HUGE impact and the media will be all over it, you will have a place at the table and the ear of the people in short order.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#37 Post by cdntous » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:03 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:00 pm
Not sure if you're a pilot, but you can't hire a guy and have him flying the same day.

Shutting down a regional for a week will make a HUGE impact and the media will be all over it, you will have a place at the table and the ear of the people in short order.
Not sure if you've ever worked for a regional airline.
Nobody at any of those regionals will do anything when they know that AC/WJ might only be a couple years away.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#38 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:13 pm

cdntous wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:03 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:00 pm
Not sure if you're a pilot, but you can't hire a guy and have him flying the same day.

Shutting down a regional for a week will make a HUGE impact and the media will be all over it, you will have a place at the table and the ear of the people in short order.
Not sure if you've ever worked for a regional airline.
Nobody at any of those regionals will do anything when they know that AC/WJ might only be a couple years away.

Because they are are worthless by definition, they have no self worth or self respect.

When given a chance to make a positive change in your industry with little risk or without losing much money, as they aren't even paid enough that a weeks pay is worth mention, that you're too weak or the tenacity, or care enough about your country or industry to DO SOMETHING, well other than crawl across the boarder to the US to be CHEAP LABOR, how very pathetic and sad.

Have some pride man
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#39 Post by cdntous » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:18 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:13 pm
Because they are are worthless by definition, they have no self worth or self respect.

When given a chance to make a positive change in your industry with little risk or without losing much money, as they aren't even paid enough that a weeks pay is worth mention, that you're too weak or the tenacity, or care enough about your country or industry to DO SOMETHING, well other than crawl across the boarder to the US to be CHEAP LABOR, how very pathetic and sad.

Have some pride man
What have you done to advance pilots' working conditions and pay?
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#40 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:37 pm

cdntous wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:18 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:13 pm
Because they are are worthless by definition, they have no self worth or self respect.

When given a chance to make a positive change in your industry with little risk or without losing much money, as they aren't even paid enough that a weeks pay is worth mention, that you're too weak or the tenacity, or care enough about your country or industry to DO SOMETHING, well other than crawl across the boarder to the US to be CHEAP LABOR, how very pathetic and sad.

Have some pride man
What have you done to advance pilots' working conditions and pay?
Refused to be part of the problem by not working for bottom feeders

Used our union protection to leverage more money for our pilots

PIREPed best I could about both good and bad operators

More than happy to let the public know about the payshortsge vs the mythical pilot shortage
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#41 Post by digits_ » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:41 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:37 pm

Refused to be part of the problem by not working for bottom feeders

Used our union protection to leverage more money for our pilots

PIREPed best I could about both good and bad operators

More than happy to let the public know about the payshortsge vs the mythical pilot shortage
I might disagree on the US part of things, but that's nice and appreciated!
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#42 Post by shamrock104 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:53 pm

How quickly these threads change direction. As previously mentioned if it happens it a good thing.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#43 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:09 pm

shamrock104 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:53 pm
How quickly these threads change direction. As previously mentioned if it happens it a good thing.

How is it a good thing that Canadians let their aviation system get soooo screwed up that they have to scurry across the boarder to eat the scraps that American pilots don't want.

It's like one bum telling another how he found a dumpster with fresh burgers in it and that it's a great thing, and here I am saying maybe you should work on not having to eat out of dumpsters.

Image



And with that I'll get off my soap box, but please guys, stay out of the dumpsters :)
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#44 Post by complexintentions » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:06 am

lol SuperchargedRS, you're hilarious. I've been called a lot of things before, but absolutely never...meek! Thanks for the laugh! :mrgreen:

Just for the record, I don't work for WestJet. Been doing the expat widebody gig for well over 10 years. Don't really care what other people make, I wanted more than I could have in Canada so I went and got it. I have no desire to work in the US and far, far less to work in Canada. But if I had to choose between the two I'd leave Canada in a heartbeat to work in the US. Go where you're treated best, bitches. It's nice to care about your country. It's a bit strange to think it cares about YOU.

I'd have no problem at all putting chumps like SuperchargedRS in the rear view mirror while they make a fraction of my wage, pay higher taxes on it, and endure the shit climate.

The rhetoric is just, well, silly. Canada will NEVER have US wages. The economic differences between the two countries are fundamental and structural. Believing you can change it with some tough talk is more pathetic than actually having the balls to leave the cozy socialist paradise to go where the circumstances are better for wages when you have the chance.

The sad part is I think SuperchargedRS really does believe his own noise and HAS sacrificed, thinking it mattered or made a difference. My sympathies, man.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#45 Post by confusedalot » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:35 am

Just surfed the net and, yep, Air Wisconsin is in fact paying big bucks (mind you, they are quoting everything including the kitchen sink to come up with those fantastic numbers), and they have the United mainline carrot dangling about for good measure.

Wonder if they would hire a 59 year old :lol: I'd be making more in a few years than I ever did in my entire career :lol:

So much for the '' &*?% pay that no American would touch '' theory espoused by some. Way off base on that one.

Hey, I'd say go for it if they do get hard up enough to sponsor visas.

As far as living in the US is concerned, I can confidently say that quality of life of my friends and acquaintances over there far outpace that of Canada, they have never looked back.

As far as choosing the sandbox, or china, or whatever third world country over the US, to each his own I guess. Interesting times indeed, I hear that the previous generation before mine also had similar opportunities. That was eons ago. Timing is everything.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#46 Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:01 am

complexintentions wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:06 am
lol SuperchargedRS, you're hilarious. I've been called a lot of things before, but absolutely never...meek! Thanks for the laugh! :mrgreen:

Just for the record, I don't work for WestJet. Been doing the expat widebody gig for well over 10 years. Don't really care what other people make, I wanted more than I could have in Canada so I went and got it. I have no desire to work in the US and far, far less to work in Canada. But if I had to choose between the two I'd leave Canada in a heartbeat to work in the US. Go where you're treated best, bitches. It's nice to care about your country. It's a bit strange to think it cares about YOU.

I'd have no problem at all putting chumps like SuperchargedRS in the rear view mirror while they make a fraction of my wage, pay higher taxes on it, and endure the shit climate.

The rhetoric is just, well, silly. Canada will NEVER have US wages. The economic differences between the two countries are fundamental and structural. Believing you can change it with some tough talk is more pathetic than actually having the balls to leave the cozy socialist paradise to go where the circumstances are better for wages when you have the chance.

The sad part is I think SuperchargedRS really does believe his own noise and HAS sacrificed, thinking it mattered or made a difference. My sympathies, man.

Actually not trying to change your own country, or thinking the people can't, that's quite socialist. The United States actually has a rich history or changing or just flat out replacing its government when it no longer serves the people.

As for me, I'm well into the six figures, home every night and only work half the year, I've also negotiated a increase in my pay, and the other pilots at my base.
I don't sacrifice, that's what other people do, and I didn't have to run away from my place of birth to do it.

You got a few different people on this world, you have the people who make the world they want, and you have the weak who run to where real men have already made such a world.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#47 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:01 am

Another millennial who thinks that they are responsible for the current boom in aviation. You must be intimate friends with TSC...you are both delusional :roll:
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#48 Post by confusedalot » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:42 am

Well into six figures for half a years work...hmmm....
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#49 Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:47 am

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:01 am
Another millennial who thinks that they are responsible for the current boom in aviation. You must be intimate friends with TSC...you are both delusional :roll:
Interesting, because I distinctly remember setting the scene to bring the meeting with our managers and us getting about 12.5k more for each of the 4 pilots at my base, perhaps Im "delusional", but the digits in my paycheck sure as hell arent lol

The fact is Id wager Im far less "millennial" than you, Im paid well, I own my home, which I come back to every night, plane, cars, and everything else owned outright, Im not some meek boarder hopper living off credit, running to places where better men worked to improve conditions, I work to make the difference I want to see in my community.

So do I think Im responsible for the boom in the industry, of course not, but am I responsible for improving the situation in my little corner, damn straight.

confusedalot wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:42 am
Well into six figures for half a years work...hmmm....

One week on, one week off = half

The fact that thats so crazy in your mind is case and point to the broken system and broken shells of men that are Canadian aviation.
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Re: Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis

#50 Post by confusedalot » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:02 am

yep...yer delusional. one week on one week off, plus well over six figures, plus all of those airfares, plus, plus, plus.

How come all of us broken people out there never came across such a sweet deal? Even someone as stupid as me would have heard about such things after 39 years, no? Are you working for a Saudi prince? If so, hey, why not hire me, I gots lotsa jet time :lol:
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