Can you see the windsock?

[pelmet]

CAR 301.06 (1) Except where the direction of the wind at an aerodrome can be determined by radio or other means such as smoke movement in the air or wind lines on water, the operator of the aerodrome shall install and maintain at the aerodrome a wind direction indicator that is
(a) of a conspicuous colour or colours;
(b) in the shape of a truncated cone;
(c) visible from an aircraft flying at an altitude of 300 m (1,000 feet) above the wind direction indicator; and
(d) illuminated when the aerodrome is used at night.
(2) When an aerodrome is closed permanently, the operator of the aerodrome shall immediately remove all of the wind direction indicators installed at the aerodrome.

From Aerodrome Standards and Recommended Practices, TP 312
The colour or colours should be so selected as to make the wind direction indicator clearly visible and understandable from a height of at least 300 m, having regard to background. Where practicable, a single colour, preferably white or orange, should be used.

From Canada’s AIM
(iii) If it is necessary for an aircraft to cross the airport before joining the circuit, it is recommended that the crossover be accomplished at least 500 ft above the circuit altitude.

[Maynard]

Is there a point to this post? Or are you bored and just quoting information?

[digits_]

Is there a point to this post? Or are you bored and just quoting information?

That you have to fly at 1500 AGL to see a windsock that is possibly only visible at 1000 AGL or below. Looks like an interesting find.

[CpnCrunch]

That you have to fly at 1500 AGL to see a windsock that is possibly only visible at 1000 AGL or below. Looks like an interesting find.

If you're joining the circuit, you're going to descend from 1500 to 1000ft above the airport.

[pelmet]

That you have to fly at 1500 AGL to see a windsock that is possibly only visible at 1000 AGL or below. Looks like an interesting find.

If you're joining the circuit, you're going to descend from 1500 to 1000ft above the airport.

Thanks for the reply. What information do you use to determine your routing over the airport prior to your descent.

[pelmet]

Is there a point to this post? Or are you bored and just quoting information?

Sometimes when I find something interesting, I copy and paste it. Others here seem to find it interesting based on the responses. And as you can see, it has generated an interesting thread....which is the point of the post.

[CpnCrunch]

Thanks for the reply. What information do you use to determine your routing over the airport prior to your descent.

Good point. Quite a few of the airports I fly to have the circuit on one side of the airport, so you always cross at 1000ft and then turn left or right. Most of the others have an ATIS. Or there are other planes in the circuit. Failing that I'd probably overfly at 1500ft and if I can't see the windsock I'd just take an educated guess at the wind. No big deal doing a go-around if you end up with a tailwind on final.

[aeroncasuperchief]

The regs are working against each other! If you want to conform to the circuit pattern in use , especially with a nordo mix, you need to determine the likely circuit pattern while you are out of the 1000 AE pattern ! My biggest concern when doing a legal non-standard full comms approach and landing into , say a gusty quartering tailwind ( for training ) I am EXPECTING Nordo traffic to conform to established standards to land into wind and therefore the risk of collision is increased! The Soo near miss spoke volumes about non-standard legal procedures without the attendant increased awareness of the heightened risk consequences !

[CpnCrunch]

Most of the time I find it's fairly easy to see the windsock from 1000 or 1500ft if there's any significant wind. If there's not much wind it can be more tricky to see, but in that case it usually doesn't matter which runway you use if nobody else is in the circuit.

[oldtimer]

1000 ft. ????
I thought it was 10,000 ft. OOPs Oh Well!
You can see it at night from 1500 ft. Look on the CFS and there is a wind sock symbol to show you where it is located. Look there.
Also compare GPS ground speed (if you can) with airspeed on final approach to tell if you are in a head wind or tail wind.

[youhavecontrol]

That is a strange find in the Regs.. Luckily, we have an eye exam and should be able to see it pretty much the same at 1000' as 1500'. Still strange though that they would overlook that detail.

The awkward thing is when the windsock is a perfect crosswind, or totally dead, and you encounter someone who sucks at ATF procedures. I was surprised one time to see a Cessna on the opposite Final from me, who made no calls in the 10 minutes I was on frequency, must have missed my "over the field, checking wind", "Descending to cross mid-field and join Downwind of XX runway" "On Downwind XX"... and only replied to me when I called final, after I remarked that I had the opposing aircraft in sight and would break-off my approach. I don't even think they flew over the field at all.

[Heliian]

They are assuming you have already chosen to cross the aerodrome and once you join circuit, you should see the sock.

Also, the requirements aren't just for strips. They include small fields and pads that helicopters would use or rivers for float ops. no circuit required.

[pelmet]

1000 ft. ????
I thought it was 10,000 ft. OOPs Oh Well!
You can see it at night from 1500 ft. Look on the CFS and there is a wind sock symbol to show you where it is located. Look there.
Also compare GPS ground speed (if you can) with airspeed on final approach to tell if you are in a head wind or tail wind.

I would suggest to anybody reading this to to use caution for this advice. While it can be useful in some circumstances(and did once lead to a change in direction for landing at an ice strip where bad wind info was given), it can also be quite misleading. I have been on final to a calm wind runway with groundspeed 15 knots faster than airspeed.

We did not go around and continued for landing as it was very appropriate to continue for landing. Anybody care to guess why?

I'll give one further piece of info.....the winds on final were probably calm as well.

[Maynard]

Is there a point to this post? Or are you bored and just quoting information?

Sometimes when I find something interesting, I copy and paste it. Others here seem to find it interesting based on the responses. And as you can see, it has generated an interesting thread....which is the point of the post.

Thats fair, maybe next time expand on your thoughts rather than just quoting stuff?

[pelmet]

Is there a point to this post? Or are you bored and just quoting information?

Sometimes when I find something interesting, I copy and paste it. Others here seem to find it interesting based on the responses. And as you can see, it has generated an interesting thread....which is the point of the post.

Thats fair, maybe next time expand on your thoughts rather than just quoting stuff?

There are many posts here by many people that are quotes from news articles, regs, etc. It appears that the way I initiated this thread bothers you. Too bad, you have added nothing and wasted posting space. Please take your poor attitude and leave the thread or better yet...the forum. Just quoting stuff(and it is useful stuff) is better than just whining and complaining.

As for why my groundspeed was 15 knots higher than the indicated airspeed. In that case the airfield was at 8500'. TAS was significantly higher than IAS. Which is why you can't always count on groundspeed from the GPS to show if you have a headwind or tailwind on approach.

[Spinwmts]

As for why my groundspeed was 15 knots higher than the indicated airspeed. In that case the airfield was at 8500'. TAS was significantly higher than IAS. Which is why you can't always count on groundspeed from the GPS to show if you have a headwind or tailwind on approach.

Good Point. But you can always do a 360 watching the GPS (obviously not near the circuit)

Btw, I think this is a great topic! IM (somewhat limited)O as a <200TT pilot, I am so tempted to approach and enter the circuit wo the standard fly over if no one is talking and visibility is good etc, but I still stick to the regs. Would love to hear what others do. Theoretically you can bump into someone 1500' HAA also doing an over fly if your not keeping your eyes outside. I agree less chance of this happening then just barging into the circuit but entering into the circuit should always be done cautiously.

[pelmet]

I have done quite a few straight-ins over the years when there is no known traffic around. Yes, I have used the GPS combined with an early morning/evening light wind on arrival, for convenience of saving time. Usually there is some smoke rising somewhere or water on lakes to confirm that winds are as expected.

Just use some common sense. I was once checking a guy out in a Twin Cessna and we were doing a flapless landing on a nice 5000 foot runway due to an issue with the aircraft. There were some short runways as well and while crossing overhead the airfield, he saw a taildragger for the short runway and all of a sudden changed his mind immediately and was going to follow the taildragger in order to conform with the other aircraft in the circuit. Strange. Just because there is an aircraft already in the circuit for one particular runway doesn't make it mandatory for everyone else if there are other issues such as performance.

[rookiepilot]

The other day at our very busy, west GTA U/C AP someone blew right above the AP at circuit height, east to west, cruise speed, and continued on their merry way. Maybe even slightly below the circuit. Very stupid, not the first time I have seen someone showing off doing it, too.

Also happened to the exact opposite direction to everyone. including countless students, who enters our one sided circuit for the mid - downwind. Brilliant.

If your on this site and do this, stop being a prick. Very dangerous. No reason to do this as controlled airspace floor is well above the circuit.

Some People.

[aeroncasuperchief]

Once I approached Mascouche Qc. from the dead side and crossed overhead and turned and descended to cross back over at the circuit altitude, I met 2 aircraft one on the left and one on the right VERY VERY close doing the same ! That led me to believe that this procedure is NOT always the safest!!! A turn and descending while looking at the sock,, After that I will join in other ways and will even do a straight in final when conditions permit!

[Mach1]

90 Nautical Miles out... "I have the windsock."

"It's about time."