Do you readback VFR clearances?

[pelmet]

To quote....

"pilots flying under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) are required to read back clearances to ensure that they and the air traffic controllers issuing them understand each other fully. But, pilots flying under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) are requested to NOT read back most clearances and instructions. For the rules check CAR 602.31 and for additional guidance check TC AIM Section 6.1."

[youhavecontrol]

What are you quoting this source from?


This is from CAR 602.31:

"602.31 (1) Subject to subsection (3), the pilot-in command of an aircraft shall

(a) comply with and acknowledge, to the appropriate air traffic control unit, all of the air traffic control instructions directed to and received by the pilot-in-command; and

(b) comply with all of the air traffic control clearances received and accepted by the pilot-in-command and

(i) subject to subsection (2), in the case of an IFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, and

(ii) in the case of a VFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, when so requested by the air traffic control unit."

[confusedalot]

Interesting.......

It's been so long since I had flown pure VFR so I simply just cannot remember anymore. I would however ''think'' that acknowledging an atc clearance with a readback would be the preferred route to take.

[pelmet]

What are you quoting this source from?


This is from CAR 602.31:

"602.31 (1) Subject to subsection (3), the pilot-in command of an aircraft shall

(a) comply with and acknowledge, to the appropriate air traffic control unit, all of the air traffic control instructions directed to and received by the pilot-in-command; and

(b) comply with all of the air traffic control clearances received and accepted by the pilot-in-command and

(i) subject to subsection (2), in the case of an IFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, and

(ii) in the case of a VFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, when so requested by the air traffic control unit."

Thanks,

I think the key statement is....."in the case of a VFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, when so requested by the air traffic control unit."

How often does ATC specifically request a readback? Not that often in my experience.

[CpnCrunch]

VFR hold short and runway crossing instructions must be read back, although it doesn't seem to be in CAR 602.31:

https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Publi ... eology.pdf

[ahramin]

I don't readback anything.

Except taxi routes and hold short clearances, I tend to screw them up otherwise.

Oh and line up and wait, I read back that one too.

And a few YVR TML guys have said they get a warm fuzzy when VFR singles read back the cleared altitude so I do that one too.

And don't ask me why but when I'm distracted or tired I tend to read back the altimeter setting. Getting better but still trying to completely break myself of that one.

Other than that, I don't read back ANYTHING.

[AirFrame]

On a quiet frequency, I read back the important bits... Taxi routes, clearances across active runways, hold shorts, altitude targets, arrival/departure routings, etc. At Victoria they change enough that reading them back is a good way for me to remember them, as well as confirming with the controller that I heard what they said correctly.

Oh, and on a busy frequency, i'll reduce all that to a double-click of the PTT at times...

[CpnCrunch]

Oh, and on a busy frequency, i'll reduce all that to a double-click of the PTT at times...

Wasn't there a notice a while back saying that the double-click is unacceptable? Saying your callsign is pretty quick.

[lownslow]

As a general rule of thumb, reading back any VFR instructions that include a limit will keep you out of trouble. Those would be your "hold short" and "line up and wait" and "stay north of the centreline of runway XX," etc.

[lhalliday]

Most airports now require readback of taxi clearances. Though when Pitt Ground told me "Whiskey Hotel Golf taxi alpha cross 26 left alpha golf delta cross 26 right foxtrot hold short 18" all I could really say was "Whiskey Hotel Golf". I almost requested progressive taxi (YPK isn't home base and I don't know my way around), but the chart was clear, so off I went...

CYPK taxi.jpg (80.31 KiB) Viewed 4108 times

If radio traffic permits I was taught to readback VFR clearances as if they were IFR. Especially in Terminal airspace. YMMV.

...laura

[rookiepilot]

Briefly, unless radio is insanely busy, then just callsign.

Why? I suspect terminal likes it, frankly reduces their stress I'm going to do something completely stupid, because VFR's do, all the time.

Up yesterday, TML calls "traffic crossing 500' below you, maintain xxxx, yeah I think repeating "maintain xxxx" isn't completely stupid....suppose its situation dependant.

I was taught repeat anything with "cleared in it" -- takeoff, landing......Plus Hold shorts always,line up and wait, (too many have just started rolling, so think that one is good)

Brevity is possible while doing this, though........

[Big Pistons Forever]

I teach and personally read back routes and altitudes. I can think of at least 1 instance when I mis-heard an altitude and the ATC corrected me when I did the read back. If I had just done a read back of my call sign I would have busted an altitude.

That being said if it is extremely busy on the frequency I will elect to skip the read back.

“Check remarks” is a phrase I often use to acknowledge informational transmissions from ATC

The fundamental problem I find is too many pilots engage the mike before the brain and tie up the frequency with bad radio calls.

[zipper]

Only the required ones: Runway Crossing and Hold Short. Everything else is just callsign. It keeps the frequency clear.

[Beefitarian]

I read back altitudes and headings, hold shorts and other restrictions.

Once in DC I made a error and got yelled at but it was probably a lot better than flying to the wrong spot, especially around there. You can't even fly light singles into that airspace anymore.

[photofly]

I teach and personally read back routes and altitudes. I can think of at least 1 instance when I mis-heard an altitude and the ATC corrected me when I did the read back. If I had just done a read back of my call sign I would have busted an altitude.

A read-back is certainly an opportunity for the controller to correct an error, but if you do read back an altitude incorrectly and the controller doesn't catch it, it's still your fault if you follow what you read back and not what you were instructed. Leastways, in the US:
https://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/182661-1.html

If you're not sure, you actually have to ask for the instruction to be repeated. Don't rely on your read-back not being corrected to settle an uncertainty in your mind. Any way, not if you don't want to find out how Transport Canada views things!

[Big Pistons Forever]

I teach and personally read back routes and altitudes. I can think of at least 1 instance when I mis-heard an altitude and the ATC corrected me when I did the read back. If I had just done a read back of my call sign I would have busted an altitude.

A read-back is certainly an opportunity for the controller to correct an error, but if you do read back an altitude incorrectly and the controller doesn't catch it, it's still your fault if you follow what you read back and not what you were instructed. Leastways, in the US:
https://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/182661-1.html

If you're not sure, you actually have to ask for the instruction to be repeated. Don't rely on your read-back not being corrected to settle an uncertainty in your mind. Any way, not if you don't want to find out how Transport Canada views things!

You as PIC are always responsible for understanding and complying with ATC instruction. The VFR read back simply increases the chance that an error on your part gets caught before it becomes a problem. However as was correctly pointed out in an earlier post, the only required acknowledgment for VFR communications is the aircraft call sign.

If you choose to read back additional information, as I do, then it is your responsibility to ensure that you do not disrupt the orderly flow of radio traffic with your extra communications. My personal experience has been the extra words only take a few extra seconds if efficiently delivered and it is seldom so busy that I elect not to do the readback.

[AirFrame]

Oh, and on a busy frequency, i'll reduce all that to a double-click of the PTT at times...

Wasn't there a notice a while back saying that the double-click is unacceptable? Saying your callsign is pretty quick.

On a busy frequency two clicks is still faster than 7 syllables (for my last three letters). The tower understands it. Pretty much reserved for the last acknowledgement at the end of an exchange of some kind, or the acknowledgement after they give me directions for exiting the runway and calling ground when i'm in the middle of transitioning from tail up to tail down on landing.

[AirFrame]

As a general rule of thumb, reading back any VFR instructions that include a limit will keep you out of trouble. Those would be your "hold short" and "line up and wait" and "stay north of the centreline of runway XX," etc.

To that I would add clearances to cross active runways. At the PrepAIR seminar at YYJ they encouraged VFR traffic to read back, so both tower and aircraft have the same understanding of what's expected of them. And from personal experience, when tower screws up and clears you onto an active runway with commercial traffic departing, (if you survive) it's good to have the record on the tape that the tower told you to go there and you acknowledged it. Good for avoiding fines for runway incursions.

[CpnCrunch]

On a busy frequency two clicks is still faster than 7 syllables (for my last three letters). The tower understands it. Pretty much reserved for the last acknowledgement at the end of an exchange of some kind, or the acknowledgement after they give me directions for exiting the runway and calling ground when i'm in the middle of transitioning from tail up to tail down on landing.

It may be a bit quicker, but you shouldn't do it.

From the AIM COM:

"The clicking of the microphone button as a form of acknowledgement is not an acceptable radio procedure."

[AirFrame]

It may be a bit quicker, but you shouldn't do it.

Thanks, Mom.