PML reorganization

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tps8903
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PML reorganization

#1 Post by tps8903 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:45 pm

PML has been reorganized into the EPCP (Express Pilot Career Portal)

Now AC Express pilots apply directly to AC on a dynamic list that supplies feedback as to improve competitiveness. You can apply anytime you meet the minimum requirements, not just yearly.

Exciting stuff for the folks in the AC family.
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skypirate88
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Re: PML reorganization

#2 Post by skypirate88 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:26 pm

Where did you get this information from, and what Express carrier do you fly for?

I have heard discussion about something like this, but nothing concrete.
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Jimmy2
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Re: PML reorganization

#3 Post by Jimmy2 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:45 pm

So no different than applying off the street. This will be good for express carriers as people weren't applying due to being trapped there by the PML.
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tps8903
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Re: PML reorganization

#4 Post by tps8903 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:23 pm

Jimmy2 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:45 pm
So no different than applying off the street. This will be good for express carriers as people weren't applying due to being trapped there by the PML.
Not quite, it says in the document that the Express Pilots will still get priority over off the street (i.e. the easier route to mainline). The PML agreement still exists, they seem to just be reorganising the way in which you apply. It cuts the carriers out of the equation in so much as building a list of qualified and interested applicants, and is real time instead of once a year. There is a list of items they prefer, usual suspects such as post-secondary education.

The document was sent internally, dated today. If you work in the AC family you will likely get it soon.

It also says in it's own language that it frowns upon changing between AC providers....puts emphisis on staying for two years at your current company.
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gravelpapi
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Re: PML reorganization

#5 Post by gravelpapi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:54 pm

I can confirm today that both Jazz and Sky Regional Pilot groups received the document outlined today regarding the new EPCP (Express Pilot Career Portal). In my opinion this route is better. Historically Air Canada has never given candidates any sort of live feedback in regards to their competitiveness of their application. This is a positive thing despite what people may say.
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Last edited by gravelpapi on Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Victory
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Re: PML reorganization

#6 Post by Victory » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:23 pm

It's easy to know if you are competitive simply by the questions they ask in the application.

University Degree or 3 year Aviation College diploma, PIC time over 12500 lbs, French speaking, Any language but English speaking, Race/Sex, Accidents/Incidents, etc.

I like how they make it sound like you are getting access to some secret insider info. There was one PML and it is long over.
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tps8903
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Re: PML reorganization

#7 Post by tps8903 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:27 pm

I think the real benefit is the transparency, and controlling your own application process as well as timing to a degree.
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gravelpapi
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Re: PML reorganization

#8 Post by gravelpapi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:35 pm

tps8903 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:27 pm
I think the real benefit is the transparency, and controlling your own application process as well as timing to a degree.
Agreed.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML reorganization

#9 Post by PositiveRate27 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:36 pm

It’s quite frustrating for the folks who have been in the network for nearly 3 years, have completed the video portion and now have to start all over from scratch.

There seems to be little difference between this and OTS except you have to work at an express carrier for 2 years minimum, most of which will be at extremely low pay for the equipment you are flying. So far anyone hired at AC off PML 2 has been a cookie cutter copy of what an OTS hire brings to the table, and it hasn’t been any faster. AC has the right to hire selectively based on qualifications, but don’t confuse this PMA with a way to fast track an inferior resume. As stated above, there has been only 1 PML, and this ain’t it.
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gtanorth
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Re: PML reorganization

#10 Post by gtanorth » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:42 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:36 pm
It’s quite frustrating for the folks who have been in the network for nearly 3 years, have completed the video portion and now have to start all over from scratch.

There seems to be little difference between this and OTS except you have to work at an express carrier for 2 years minimum, most of which will be at extremely low pay for the equipment you are flying. So far anyone hired at AC off PML 2 has been a cookie cutter copy of what an OTS hire brings to the table, and it hasn’t been any faster. AC has the right to hire selectively based on qualifications, but don’t confuse this PMA with a way to fast track an inferior resume. As stated above, there has been only 1 PML, and this ain’t it.
Why do you think you need to start over if the video interview is done?
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML reorganization

#11 Post by PositiveRate27 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:59 pm

Because it says to.
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gtanorth
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Re: PML reorganization

#12 Post by gtanorth » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:01 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:59 pm
Because it says to.
You should clearify what that means. I don’t think it sets you back in the process at all. Maybe adds another admin step for you but that’s all.
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Re: PML reorganization

#13 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:02 pm

gtanorth wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:42 pm
PositiveRate27 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:36 pm
It’s quite frustrating for the folks who have been in the network for nearly 3 years, have completed the video portion and now have to start all over from scratch.

There seems to be little difference between this and OTS except you have to work at an express carrier for 2 years minimum, most of which will be at extremely low pay for the equipment you are flying. So far anyone hired at AC off PML 2 has been a cookie cutter copy of what an OTS hire brings to the table, and it hasn’t been any faster. AC has the right to hire selectively based on qualifications, but don’t confuse this PMA with a way to fast track an inferior resume. As stated above, there has been only 1 PML, and this ain’t it.
Why do you think you need to start over if the video interview is done?
It said right in the memo. Pilots who have completed a video interview and have not yet been invited to an in-person interview will need to reapply.
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GATRKGA
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Re: PML reorganization

#14 Post by GATRKGA » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 pm

PostmasterGeneral wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:02 pm
[quote=gtanorth post_id=<a href="tel:1031800">1031800</a> time=<a href="tel:1520041347">1520041347</a> user_id=34692]
[quote=PositiveRate27 post_id=<a href="tel:1031799">1031799</a> time=<a href="tel:1520040988">1520040988</a> user_id=39447]
It’s quite frustrating for the folks who have been in the network for nearly 3 years, have completed the video portion and now have to start all over from scratch.

There seems to be little difference between this and OTS except you have to work at an express carrier for 2 years minimum, most of which will be at extremely low pay for the equipment you are flying. So far anyone hired at AC off PML 2 has been a cookie cutter copy of what an OTS hire brings to the table, and it hasn’t been any faster. AC has the right to hire selectively based on qualifications, but don’t confuse this PMA with a way to fast track an inferior resume. As stated above, there has been only 1 PML, and this ain’t it.

Why do you think you need to start over if the video interview is done?
It said right in the memo. Pilots who have completed a video interview and have not yet been invited to an in-person interview will need to reapply.
Ouch! I’m aware of guys that have been waiting over a year with this video interview, hoping for the in person process. And now to find out they’ve been waiting for nothing. Talk about misleading. Sorry if this was you.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML reorganization

#15 Post by PositiveRate27 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:11 pm

Yes it was me, and lots of others. Don’t feel sorry, we’ve helped this game be perpetuated by accepting the position without demanding terms be outlined. In the end I love my job and love my life and am thankful to be providing for my family.
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gtanorth
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Re: PML reorganization

#16 Post by gtanorth » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:25 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:11 pm
Yes it was me, and lots of others. Don’t feel sorry, we’ve helped this game be perpetuated by accepting the position without demanding terms be outlined. In the end I love my job and love my life and am thankful to be providing for my family.
It will not cause any delay in the process. Ask for clearification.
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Re: PML reorganization

#17 Post by gtanorth » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:48 pm

GATRKGA wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:02 pm
[quote=gtanorth post_id=<a href="tel:1031800">1031800</a> time=<a href="tel:1520041347">1520041347</a> user_id=34692]
[quote=PositiveRate27 post_id=<a href="tel:1031799">1031799</a> time=<a href="tel:1520040988">1520040988</a> user_id=39447]
It’s quite frustrating for the folks who have been in the network for nearly 3 years, have completed the video portion and now have to start all over from scratch.

There seems to be little difference between this and OTS except you have to work at an express carrier for 2 years minimum, most of which will be at extremely low pay for the equipment you are flying. So far anyone hired at AC off PML 2 has been a cookie cutter copy of what an OTS hire brings to the table, and it hasn’t been any faster. AC has the right to hire selectively based on qualifications, but don’t confuse this PMA with a way to fast track an inferior resume. As stated above, there has been only 1 PML, and this ain’t it.

Why do you think you need to start over if the video interview is done?
It said right in the memo. Pilots who have completed a video interview and have not yet been invited to an in-person interview will need to reapply.
Ouch! I’m aware of guys that have been waiting over a year with this video interview, hoping for the in person process. And now to find out they’ve been waiting for nothing. Talk about misleading. Sorry if this was you.

If you know guys waiting for over a year then the new structure will tell them why and what they can do to move things along. A year really just means that AC was not that interested in them with their current points.
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skypirate88
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Re: PML reorganization

#18 Post by skypirate88 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:04 pm

Positiverate27, take a look at the memo again. There is a line that says this program will allow for quicker processing of candidates from the original video interview.

It isn't very specific, but hopefully that is an indication that guys like me and you won't have to start the process all over again.
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Re: PML reorganization

#19 Post by Dry Guy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:14 pm

Seems like an HR nightmare. What do you tell someone who didn't get hired when they had the same qualifications as their colleague. There's a reason why companies don't tell you why you didn't get the job. It opens a massive can of worms and and even lawsuits.
I'm very curious to see if they will publicly address their diversity hire policies since it can be a controversial topic.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML reorganization

#20 Post by PositiveRate27 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:14 pm

skypirate88 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Positiverate27, take a look at the memo again. There is a line that says this program will allow for quicker processing of candidates from the original video interview.

It isn't very specific, but hopefully that is an indication that guys like me and you won't have to start the process all over again.
I interpret it a little differently. I believe it means the timeline between any candidate’s video interview to completion of the whole process will be streamlined from its previous form, but there will be no preference given to folks who have already done a video. I guess we’ll wait and see.
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gtanorth
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Re: PML reorganization

#21 Post by gtanorth » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:34 pm

Dry Guy wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:14 pm
Seems like an HR nightmare. What do you tell someone who didn't get hired when they had the same qualifications as their colleague. There's a reason why companies don't tell you why you didn't get the job. It opens a massive can of worms and and even lawsuits.
I'm very curious to see if they will publicly address their diversity hire policies since it can be a controversial topic.
They don’t hire simply based on qualifications. That is where the interview comes in. They don’t have to say anything other than yes or no. The visibility they offer in this program relates to exp, education etc not how you stack up in the video interview, in person interview, etc.
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Re: PML reorganization

#22 Post by skypirate88 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:45 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:14 pm
skypirate88 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Positiverate27, take a look at the memo again. There is a line that says this program will allow for quicker processing of candidates from the original video interview.

It isn't very specific, but hopefully that is an indication that guys like me and you won't have to start the process all over again.
I interpret it a little differently. I believe it means the timeline between any candidate’s video interview to completion of the whole process will be streamlined from its previous form, but there will be no preference given to folks who have already done a video. I guess we’ll wait and see.
Fair enough. Perhaps a little more clarity will come in the days ahead. For now, we wait....
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Re: PML reorganization

#23 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:53 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:14 pm
skypirate88 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Positiverate27, take a look at the memo again. There is a line that says this program will allow for quicker processing of candidates from the original video interview.

It isn't very specific, but hopefully that is an indication that guys like me and you won't have to start the process all over again.
I interpret it a little differently. I believe it means the timeline between any candidate’s video interview to completion of the whole process will be streamlined from its previous form, but there will be no preference given to folks who have already done a video. I guess we’ll wait and see.
That's exactly it. What is meant by "streamlining" is that your time between video interview and invite/PFO will be much shorter. Instead of having to wait upwards of a year for some of us.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML reorganization

#24 Post by PositiveRate27 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:25 pm

It sounds like they are moving it toward what it should have been in the first place. Hopefully the next round goes smoother for people who are applying for the first time.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML reorganization

#25 Post by PositiveRate27 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:25 pm

It sounds like they are moving it toward what it should have been in the first place. Hopefully the next round goes smoother for people who are applying for the first time.
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