Are paid training opportunities worth it?

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freshpilotgraduate
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Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#1 Post by freshpilotgraduate » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:55 pm

Hello everyone, I just finished my CPL and am looking for job. After looking around, it seems there are not many good jobs for new pilot. Either you have to work as a ramp slave or pay for instructor rating.

Recently, my friend told me about this program called "Pay to fly". Basically, the idea is that because you are a new pilot with little experience, not many companies will want to hire you. So you pay the company to give you type rating and 500-1000 hours of line training experience. After this, you will be an experienced pilot and it will be easy to find job.

I am wondering if this is a good way to proceed. I know that it will cost quite a bit, more than the instructor rating, but I am thinking that with training on airplane like 737 or 320 and 500 hours I would be able to bypass the low paying jobs and be better off in the long run.

If anybody has done this sort of program, could you please tell me how it was and which company you did it with, and where you are working now?

I talked to a few companies and already have some offers for line training package. The one I am most interested in is the Eaglejet package for A320 TR and 500 hours line training with an airline in Asia for USD 70,000.

Inderjit S
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dogfood
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#2 Post by dogfood » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:16 am

Most people accept jobs were the employer pays you.. not the other way around why would anyone even think of doing this
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#3 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:54 am

DO NOT DO THIS
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#4 Post by flyinhigh » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:56 am

There was a US company that used to post job ads on this site about 10 years ago. There posting was a job posting for exactly what you were asking about. They got themselves banned form this site due to the members infuriated.

Ask yourself this. "If I spend $70,000+ to get a job that will give me 500 hours of flying on a 737/A320, will I get a great WAWCON job when it is over?"

The answer is absolutely not, Westjet and Air Canada won't touch you till you have 1500 hours even with the type rating. Your still going to have a hard time at the end of the contract year finding a job, even on a navajo as you won't have any bush/gravel experience. The guy on the ramp that has sat right seat for the past year has at least saw the northern requirements and will get that job though. Oh and you'll still be hugely in debt.

If you want to stay overseas than, yes maybe this is your best option of getting a job and staying overseas. If you want to fly in Canada, I highly discourage you from placing yourself with this debt load, just to be get a couple hours and find yourself outta work. Keep in mind, these operators will not renew your contract as this is a business that needs to make money. They mark up the value of the hours/training at a ridiculous rate and hope young lads like yourself will do it to help keep them afloat.

If they were a legit operator there would be no money changing hands, just a job offer. In todays market, avoid this at all costs......
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Last edited by flyinhigh on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#5 Post by flyinhigh » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:59 am

.
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Last edited by flyinhigh on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#6 Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:00 am

You wouldn't be able to find a job in Canada with 750tt and 500 on an A320.
A320 jobs in Canada need 3000+ and with 750tt, you have zero relevant experience for flying a medivac king air.

Go find a jump school, tow gliders, get a float rating.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#7 Post by eyebrow737 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:09 am

Think simply about how this works. You finish your type rating and then want to go get a job using your time. But low and behold - no one will hire you!

Why? because they got some other sucker to pay for their type rating to replace you that they don't need to pay and actually earn money from.

I have known people that try this route, can't get the job and go back to flying a Cessna - $40000 poorer and bitter.

If you love flying, nothing beats a few years or more in the hinterlands experiencing life and nature.

40 years pushing buttons in heavy iron is a long time and you'll get sick of it quickly if your only aim is to take shortcuts and not enjoy the journey for the destination.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#8 Post by montado » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:30 am

NickyNick 3. 0

Firstly you have to choose for yourself what you think will make you happy.

Secondly, remember this decision you make when you are captain 320 in Asia somewhere. MAybe when this day comes in 20 years some new kid will be asking about a new program to fly the next generation aircraft that is revolutionary and single pilot. Your airline will buy this plane, and you won't be flying it. This new kid will because he will do it for half the rate you are paid and in fact will even pay for the training to do so.

Point is look at your career as a whole not the next 3 years. What would you tell someone if you were a 320 captain today? You can get wherever it is you want to be being paid the whole way but like I said everyone has to make their choices.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#9 Post by telex » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am

freshpilotgraduate wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:55 pm
Hello everyone, I just finished my CPL and am looking for job. After looking around, it seems there are not many good jobs for new pilot. Either you have to work as a ramp slave or pay for instructor rating.

Recently, my friend told me about this program called "Pay to fly". Basically, the idea is that because you are a new pilot with little experience, not many companies will want to hire you. So you pay the company to give you type rating and 500-1000 hours of line training experience. After this, you will be an experienced pilot and it will be easy to find job.

I am wondering if this is a good way to proceed. I know that it will cost quite a bit, more than the instructor rating, but I am thinking that with training on airplane like 737 or 320 and 500 hours I would be able to bypass the low paying jobs and be better off in the long run.

If anybody has done this sort of program, could you please tell me how it was and which company you did it with, and where you are working now?

I talked to a few companies and already have some offers for line training package. The one I am most interested in is the Eaglejet package for A320 TR and 500 hours line training with an airline in Asia for USD 70,000.

Inderjit S
How do you define a good job for a fresh pilot graduate?

How far will you lower yourself? What job do you think is acceptable for a fresh pilot graduate with no experience?

If you are not a troll (but odds are against that) simply go here:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewforu ... 3cad8c4a12

Jobs for all.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#10 Post by stayls » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:01 am

go try Europe! fly for voyager! they may hire you now, since the hours are going down in job offers and no one above 500 apply to their job offers with 30k for a year, you may have a shot there...
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#11 Post by trey kule » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:51 am

OP’s first post!

If it posts like a troll, and reads like a troll.....
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#12 Post by freshpilotgraduate » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:37 pm

stayls wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:01 am
go try Europe! fly for voyager! they may hire you now, since the hours are going down in job offers and no one above 500 apply to their job offers with 30k for a year, you may have a shot there...
I don't have EU citizenship so this is not an option. Only Canada and India
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Last edited by freshpilotgraduate on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#13 Post by freshpilotgraduate » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:39 pm

telex wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am
How do you define a good job for a fresh pilot graduate?

How far will you lower yourself? What job do you think is acceptable for a fresh pilot graduate with no experience?

If you are not a troll (but odds are against that) simply go here:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewforu ... 3cad8c4a12

Jobs for all.
I paid $100,000 to get pilot license I want a pilot job ... not throwing bag or washing plane. That's all. Also I prefer not to be instructor because of my English
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#14 Post by freshpilotgraduate » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:43 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:00 am
You wouldn't be able to find a job in Canada with 750tt and 500 on an A320.
A320 jobs in Canada need 3000+ and with 750tt, you have zero relevant experience for flying a medivac king air.

Go find a jump school, tow gliders, get a float rating.
I was thinking could also return to India if cannot find job in canada with TR. My good friend also paid for TR and 1,000 hours as is normal for Indian citizen and got job at jet airways earning decent money (2 lakh INR or 4000 Canada per month). This is much more than intrusctor salary in Canada.
Then I could come back with a few thousand hour and work for Air Canada.
Would this work?
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#15 Post by freshpilotgraduate » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:46 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:56 am
There was a US company that used to post job ads on this site about 10 years ago. There posting was a job posting for exactly what you were asking about. They got themselves banned form this site due to the members infuriated.

Ask yourself this. "If I spend $70,000+ to get a job that will give me 500 hours of flying on a 737/A320, will I get a great WAWCON job when it is over?"

The answer is absolutely not, Westjet and Air Canada won't touch you till you have 1500 hours even with the type rating. Your still going to have a hard time at the end of the contract year finding a job, even on a navajo as you won't have any bush/gravel experience. The guy on the ramp that has sat right seat for the past year has at least saw the northern requirements and will get that job though. Oh and you'll still be hugely in debt.

If you want to stay overseas than, yes maybe this is your best option of getting a job and staying overseas. If you want to fly in Canada, I highly discourage you from placing yourself with this debt load, just to be get a couple hours and find yourself outta work. Keep in mind, these operators will not renew your contract as this is a business that needs to make money. They mark up the value of the hours/training at a ridiculous rate and hope young lads like yourself will do it to help keep them afloat.

If they were a legit operator there would be no money changing hands, just a job offer. In todays market, avoid this at all costs......
I will not take loan for this purpose. My parents will sponsor the tuition cost of course.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#16 Post by digits_ » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:55 pm

With 500 hours of jet time, I'm sure a few medevac operators would be interested to hire you as an FO. A lot of contracts require 500 hours, doesn't matter in which plane you got them. On the other hand, if you want to pay for hours, buy an additional 250 hours of c172 time, and you'll be way cheaper off... Or, you know, look for a job...

If your parents want to pay you 100k, why bother working at all, invest it somewhere else, you might get a higher return on investment.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#17 Post by digits_ » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:09 pm

Just for comparison:

I did my training in Europe. A class mate of mine went the self sponsored type rating route. He paid a lot of money for it. He's now a cruise relief pilot in the middle east. Hasn't landed a plane in years but puts nice pictures on facebook.

I spent a fraction of that and moved to Canada. I actually fly the planes from the left seat. Granted, no fancy jets, but I could have reached that by know if I wanted to. If you have the right to work in Canada, there is really no reason whatsoever to pay for a job. Canada has a lot of opportunities to fly planes for money and to grow in your aviation career. Pay 2 fly is a desperate move from desperate people in Europe. I considered it as well, but it just isn't worth it financially.

It's up to you to decide what you want.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#18 Post by telex » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:12 am

freshpilotgraduate wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:39 pm
telex wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am
How do you define a good job for a fresh pilot graduate?

How far will you lower yourself? What job do you think is acceptable for a fresh pilot graduate with no experience?

If you are not a troll (but odds are against that) simply go here:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewforu ... 3cad8c4a12

Jobs for all.
I paid $100,000 to get pilot license I want a pilot job ... not throwing bag or washing plane. That's all. Also I prefer not to be instructor because of my English
I don't care how much you paid for your licence and I doubt anybody who owns the airplanes you want to fly cares either.

Would you accept a pilot job on a piston powered propellor airplane or will you only entertain jet offers at this point?
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#19 Post by freshpilotgraduate » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:13 am

telex wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:12 am
I don't care how much you paid for your licence and I doubt anybody who owns the airplanes you want to fly cares either.

Would you accept a pilot job on a piston powered propellor airplane or will you only entertain jet offers at this point?
Yes if I have to
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#20 Post by montado » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:44 am

freshpilotgraduate wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:13 am
telex wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:12 am
I don't care how much you paid for your licence and I doubt anybody who owns the airplanes you want to fly cares either.

Would you accept a pilot job on a piston powered propellor airplane or will you only entertain jet offers at this point?
Yes if I have to
You don't have to do anything. Point is you should want to do the right thing. My opinion is you should be paid to be a pilot flying around paying passengers and not the other way around.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#21 Post by Dockjock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:56 am

There has never been a time in recent history where there are so many opportunities to enter the industry. Yeah you might work the ramp. But not for long. Save your money and do it with elbow grease instead. You will gain the respect of your peers which is important in moving up the career ladder.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#22 Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:36 am

I've got a great opportunity!
Give me $60,000 and I'll train you on a Mooney. Then pay me $150 per hour and you can be my personal pilot. That way you will gain valuable experience flying a retractable gear airplane with a constant speed propellor.
I offer the same package for King Air 90 copilot, but it costs $500,000 up front and $500 per hour.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#23 Post by Air.Field » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:27 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:36 am
I've got a great opportunity!
Give me $60,000 and I'll train you on a Mooney. Then pay me $150 per hour and you can be my personal pilot. That way you will gain valuable experience flying a retractable gear airplane with a constant speed propellor.
I offer the same package for King Air 90 copilot, but it costs $500,000 up front and $500 per hour.
Where do I sign up?
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#24 Post by Meatservo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:53 am

eyebrow737 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:09 am

If you love flying, nothing beats a few years or more in the hinterlands experiencing life and nature.

40 years pushing buttons in heavy iron is a long time and you'll get sick of it quickly if your only aim is to take shortcuts and not enjoy the journey for the destination.
Exactly this.
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Re: Are paid training opportunities worth it?

#25 Post by calgaryguy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:07 am

freshpilotgraduate wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:55 pm
Hello everyone, I just finished my CPL and am looking for job. After looking around, it seems there are not many good jobs for new pilot. Either you have to work as a ramp slave or pay for instructor rating.

Recently, my friend told me about this program called "Pay to fly". Basically, the idea is that because you are a new pilot with little experience, not many companies will want to hire you. So you pay the company to give you type rating and 500-1000 hours of line training experience. After this, you will be an experienced pilot and it will be easy to find job.

I am wondering if this is a good way to proceed. I know that it will cost quite a bit, more than the instructor rating, but I am thinking that with training on airplane like 737 or 320 and 500 hours I would be able to bypass the low paying jobs and be better off in the long run.

If anybody has done this sort of program, could you please tell me how it was and which company you did it with, and where you are working now?

I talked to a few companies and already have some offers for line training package. The one I am most interested in is the Eaglejet package for A320 TR and 500 hours line training with an airline in Asia for USD 70,000.

Inderjit S
If you do this and I see it on your resume or logbook, your resume will instantly go into the trash bin. If somehow you make it to the interview you will see me sitting on the interview panel. You will not make it through the hiring process, and "never under any circumstances" placed on your file. I want to work with fellow professionals, and not guys who don't know how to say no.
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