First Job

[FLunkown]

I'm interested in what people think for what is the best start for Pilots (maybe there isn't one) but I have my own thoughts, I would like to hear yours.

[Cessna 180]

knock on every door of every 702/703/704 company you can find in canada (with a decent reputation for safety). there's plenty of survey/inspection jobs that hire newbies across the country, which is a great start especially if living in a city is important to you.

[North Shore]

It's your *first* job...you don't get to be picky....

[AirDoan]

For me there were some considerations but ultimately it was whatever I could get. I had the idea of going bush. Working a dock or ramp and earning a seating a 180 or beaver. I still want to fly floats in BC one day. But I sent applications and called around for over a year before finally getting a pipeline job. My advice? Unless you actually want to be an instructor ( I didn’t and forcing would not have been good for me or my pupils), just apply everywhere and take what you can get with one caveat. Do your research especially if your uprooting your life for a year round position that doesn’t list any flight duties or “may lead to flight line”. I’ve heard of ops that like to dangle carrots.

[OneYonge]

Im on the same boat(looking to get started in the first job). Im currently in Vancouver Island visiting some operators.

In the meantime, do you folks have any preference on where to get the 7-hour float rating? Or are they pretty much all good?

I've currently visited VFC, Pacific Seaplanes and Island Coastal at Pitt Meadows.

[NorthSask]

...

[C.W.E.]

At Pacific Seaplanes you learn from one of the most experienced sea plane pilots in the world.

That is worth pure gold.

[C.W.E.]

Is it just my misunderstanding of aviation today or is flying seaplanes looked upon as not a great flying job compared to flying multi engine jets?

" Bush flying " is only one segment of flying seaplanes because there are big seaplane operators such as Harbour Air that have zero to do with bush flying that a lot of pilots make a career of.

For sure each type of flying has its pluses and minuses, money wise you definitely can do better in the bigger multi engine jets if you can put up with the repetitive day after day same old same old life style.

[telex]

Is it just my misunderstanding of aviation today or is flying seaplanes looked upon as not a great flying job compared to flying multi engine jets?

...money wise you definitely can do better in the bigger multi engine jets if you can put up with the repetitive day after day same old same old life style.

I can find ways to handle the terrible lifestyle you describe.

I prefer it over people asking me if I someday want to be a commercial pilot.

[atphat]

If a float operator will pay me 200+ a year to work 10 days a month I’ll fly floats.
Oh. And a pension. Benefits. Travel benefits. Good disability. Fair treatment.

I think it is your misunderstanding. No offence to the float guys but I always chuckle when I hear pilots say the airlines aren’t a very good job.

[MarkyMark90]

Plenty of operators offers after 6 months on the ramp a right seat in some turbo prop aircraft, that can lead into solo flying on another type of aircraft after a few hundred hours discovering the region.

[Meatservo]

If a float operator will pay me 200+ a year to work 10 days a month I’ll fly floats.
Oh. And a pension. Benefits. Travel benefits. Good disability. Fair treatment.

I think it is your misunderstanding. No offence to the float guys but I always chuckle when I hear pilots say the airlines aren’t a very good job.

Depends what you call a great job. I admit, lots of money and barely having to lift a finger to a complish anything appeals to a lot of people.

You might ask yourself why anyone would want to be a musician, or a carpenter, or build hot-rods for a living, too, when any of these people are more than smart enough to become an "airline" pilot.

For some people, aviation is more than sitting in a chair in a cheap suit and following rules. There is a physical pleasure in handling an aircraft, particularly on water. There is a sense of accomplishment in staying safe in, shall we say, "austere" conditions. There is a sense of camaraderie among "bush" pilots that you won't find at the "airlines".

Believe it or not, a job, like any number on offer at a popular regional airline I shall not name, where you can sign on with a thousand hours or so of relatively mundane 704 flying under your belt as second in command and a bunch of bogus "pilot in command under supervision" time to boot, and then six months later get upgraded to "captain" because your union number comes up, is not much of an accomplishment. You can drag your wheeled map-case, with no actual maps in it, through a terminal with the gold braid on your cap and the rings that don't even go all the way around your cheap sleeves, and perhaps enjoy the reflected remnants of the respect laypeople have for people like you that was earned by pilots of the past who actually did something worthy of note.

Some people need to feel like they've earned something. You can have your benefits and your union and your "pension", but you're no navigator. You're no adventurer. You're no "commander". If you're even good at flying planes, it's because you do something else with them in your spare time. Some people expect more from their profession. And yes, I fly large jets. I know what I'm talking about.

[atphat]

Lol

[C.W.E.]

Meatservo has put it in a very understandable and true context.

If a float operator will pay me 200+ a year to work 10 days a month I’ll fly floats.
Oh. And a pension. Benefits. Travel benefits. Good disability. Fair treatment.

How long does it take to reach that position in flying for an airline?

[goingnowherefast]

Floats is better flying and makes a better pilot. I don't think anybody will argue that. However there are very few float operators that offer stability, schedule, decent pay, pension, benefits or a comparable level of safety. Floats is often also a lot more physical work. Hauling barrels, moose carcass, 500lbs of lazy fisherman's bags. Rolling a barrel of bear bait into a Beaver by yourself is a pain when you're 24, It's impossible when you're 50. It's all that hard work, hand flying, decision making and limited resources that make a float job a great entry to the industry. The other great thing about floats is when stuff starts to go sideways due to weather or mechanical, just land on the lake you are flying over. In that respect it's more forgiving to learning lessons the hard way because you don't have that option in a wheel plane.

I'm doing the airline thing now, and it suits my lifestyle great. My only regret is that I didn't have the opportunity to do more float flying, I loved it.

[telex]

If a float operator will pay me 200+ a year to work 10 days a month I’ll fly floats.
Oh. And a pension. Benefits. Travel benefits. Good disability. Fair treatment.

I think it is your misunderstanding. No offence to the float guys but I always chuckle when I hear pilots say the airlines aren’t a very good job.

Depends what you call a great job. I admit, lots of money and barely having to lift a finger to a complish anything appeals to a lot of people.

You might ask yourself why anyone would want to be a musician, or a carpenter, or build hot-rods for a living, too, when any of these people are more than smart enough to become an "airline" pilot.

For some people, aviation is more than sitting in a chair in a cheap suit and following rules. There is a physical pleasure in handling an aircraft, particularly on water. There is a sense of accomplishment in staying safe in, shall we say, "austere" conditions. There is a sense of camaraderie among "bush" pilots that you won't find at the "airlines".

Believe it or not, a job, like any number on offer at a popular regional airline I shall not name, where you can sign on with a thousand hours or so of relatively mundane 704 flying under your belt as second in command and a bunch of bogus "pilot in command under supervision" time to boot, and then six months later get upgraded to "captain" because your union number comes up, is not much of an accomplishment. You can drag your wheeled map-case, with no actual maps in it, through a terminal with the gold braid on your cap and the rings that don't even go all the way around your cheap sleeves, and perhaps enjoy the reflected remnants of the respect laypeople have for people like you that was earned by pilots of the past who actually did something worthy of note.

Some people need to feel like they've earned something. You can have your benefits and your union and your "pension", but you're no navigator. You're no adventurer. You're no "commander". If you're even good at flying planes, it's because you do something else with them in your spare time. Some people expect more from their profession. And yes, I fly large jets. I know what I'm talking about.

"What" are you "talking" about?

I don't "judge" people for their "chosen" profession. Why do you "judge" me for my "choice"? I'm smart "enough" to change tires "but" I chose another path.

My "navigator" was replaced by technology. So "sorry". So was my "flight engineer". I am "neither". Can I still achieve "adventurer" status?

I "do nothing" with airplanes on my days off. Therefore I am "no good" at flying planes in your assessment. How the "hell" did you arrive at this opinion of my "ability" with an "airplane"?

To summarize; you sh*t all over the airline profession and harken back to the days of old with open cockpits and nothing but "austere" conditions to test one's mettle. I assume you are not an airline pilot.

But you left me hanging til the end when you revealed you fly large jets! So you must be an expert! Or a hypocritical sort. If you hate your shirt so much trade it in for some Carhartts. See that stack of barrels over there? Why are you still here? Or are you not an adventurer? Go earn your keep in your chosen profession.

ps. I don't know what a large jet is. Why does flying a large jet give you the magic wisdom to know what you are talking about?

[telex]

Meatservo has put it in a very understandable and true context.

If a float operator will pay me 200+ a year to work 10 days a month I’ll fly floats.
Oh. And a pension. Benefits. Travel benefits. Good disability. Fair treatment.

How long does it take to reach that position in flying for an airline?

Dad how long does it take to reach this position on the dock of Stink Weed Lake?

[telex]

Floats is better flying and makes a better pilot. I don't think anybody will argue that. However there are very few float operators that offer stability, schedule, decent pay, pension, benefits or a comparable level of safety. Floats is often also a lot more physical work. Hauling barrels, moose carcass, 500lbs of lazy fisherman's bags. Rolling a barrel of bear bait into a Beaver by yourself is a pain when you're 24, It's impossible when you're 50. It's all that hard work, hand flying, decision making and limited resources that make a float job a great entry to the industry. The other great thing about floats is when stuff starts to go sideways due to weather or mechanical, just land on the lake you are flying over. In that respect it's more forgiving to learning lessons the hard way because you don't have that option in a wheel plane.

I'm doing the airline thing now, and it suits my lifestyle great. My only regret is that I didn't have the opportunity to do more float flying, I loved it.

You have the opportunity to quit your job and do better flying and be a better pilot. Love it.

[Meatservo]

Wow, what's with all the quotation marks?

OK, so to answer your questions in order,

1) I don't know what your choice is, so how can I judge you personally? I was responding to ATPHAT, whose response to the original question made it sound as if she was trying to say you can leap into a $200,000 job with benefits blah, blah, as an alternative to bush flying, when that's false. The original question was something like, "what's the best way to start out?". I object to the implication that starting out in the bush precludes the "good job" that ATPHAT is talking about.

2) I suspect not. Unless you do something adventurous in your time off, which is not germane to this discussion.

3) Because it's a volatile skill.

4) No, I don't. You can't "stack" full barrels. Obviously. Note proper use of quotation marks.

5) Still where?

6) I still have some adventures, yes.

7) The definition of a "large" aircraft is in the C.A.R.S. The definition of a turbojet is in the Oxford English Dictionary, as well as more technical sources. I guess it does give me a bit of -if not "wisdom"- then at least some perspective, you see, because I did non-scheduled flying, which you would probably call "bush" flying, for many years before being employed (voluntarily) by a scheduled airline operating large turbojets. I have had a very exciting and colourful career, which is what I wanted. It is no longer necessary to do any of the things I did to get a job operating large aeroplanes for a scheduled carrier, which appeals to some, like ATPHAT and yourself. But I think it's pretty slimy to advise a beginner to specifically avoid entry-level "bush" flying because you think you have a "better" job. You don't. And when any "bush" pilot is tired of rolling (not stacking) barrels, and the other monstrous things they do with their coarse hands and vulgar hands-on approach to handling aircraft, they can easily, easily, figure out how to do what you're doing. At least, I did, and I'm nothing special.

So to fully answer your final question, the reason it gives me some perspective, or "wisdom", or whatever, is that I've a lot of different kinds of flying and now I do what you (probably) do. Maybe we even sit together! So anyway, I suspect I know what you are doing. Believe it or not, I don't disrespect it. I DO disrespect it when guys like you make starting off in the bush sound like a waste of time, because it isn't. It's a way to get to where you possibly are today, and in the end, it's more of an accomplishment. Doing things the easy way is not the token of superiority some people seem to think it is.

The question was "First Job", not ""Ultimate career goal". I find it hard to imagine getting the job I have now at 23 years old and still finding anything exciting about doing the EXACT SAME SHIT it 42 years later. Break it up a little, for fucks sake.

[Meatservo]

Also,

Ha, ha! I made you mad!