First Job

[telex]

One thing about becoming a commercial pilot the minimum requirements to become one are really low because it is one of the few occupations where there is no minimum education required to become one.

As long as you can read and write and do simple math you qualify to be one.

Dad there are many occupations that do not require a minimum education level.

But to be a Commercial pilot you must have a attained a Private pilot licence. So there is a minimum education level required. You also need a Commercial licence. More education as a minimum. Likely even MIFR training. All required Dad.

[C.W.E.]

But to be a Commercial pilot you must have a attained a Private pilot licence. So there is a minimum education level required

When did TC start requiring a minimum education to learn to fly telex?

My comment was to point out that to earn a living as a pilot there are no minimum educational requirements outside of the ability to read and write and be able to understand basic math......therefore the occupation is very easy to get into unlike other occupations such as a doctor or a lawyer etc.

Of course there is a lot of learning to do in the process of becoming a pilot and there are several levels of a pilot license up to the ATPL.

And of course there are different pilots licenses and ratings one can get.

I hold a ATPL fixed wing Canada, Australia, USA and Greece.

Also a Canadian Helicopter Pilot License.

And a FAA Commercial Gyroplane Pilot License.

And a European Airdisplay Authority.

Therefore it would appear that I do not need you to explain the process to me son.












s

[North Shore]

I'm interested in what people think for what is the best start for Pilots (maybe there isn't one) but I have my own thoughts, I would like to hear yours.

BUddy asked a question - I'm pretty sure that he isn't interested in an old-young pi$$ing contest
Back on topic, please...

[Meatservo]

Meatservo.

There’s a lot more to flying large multi-engine jets than pushing and pulling the control column and sitting there looking handsome. I suggest you look a little deeper and discover the aspects of that job you suck at, and try and improve.

There are definitely some people in this country I stand to learn a thing or two from, Rockie, but you sure as hell aren't one of them. The fact is, we are in a generation now where the choice is between having a fulfilling career, or joining the ranks of the underachievers who join unions to amplify their whining power because their lack of quantifiable qualifications isn't enough to convince them that they don't deserve to make the same paycheques as their genuinely talented forbearers. The fact is, they don't earn it.

[telex]

Meatservo.

There’s a lot more to flying large multi-engine jets than pushing and pulling the control column and sitting there looking handsome. I suggest you look a little deeper and discover the aspects of that job you suck at, and try and improve.

There are definitely some people in this country I stand to learn a thing or two from, Rockie, but you sure as hell aren't one of them. The fact is, we are in a generation now where the choice is between having a fulfilling career, or joining the ranks of the underachievers who join unions to amplify their whining power because their lack of quantifiable qualifications isn't enough to convince them that they don't deserve to make the same paycheques as their genuinely talented forbearers. The fact is, they don't earn it.

You should have kept the worthless pissant comment.

Are you bitter or angry about something?

[atphat]

Obviously he is. Pilots are funny. I remember there was a poster once trying to explain how being FO is the same as being Captain. Cat would say airline flying is easy because he had SIX instructors once on the airbus.....never did any airline flying though, except as a passenger. Now we have Meatservo, an alleged airline pilot who thinks it’s just pushing buttons, rolling bags, and wearing cheap suits.

My point is you only know if you know. I don’t care what kind of “large jet” Meatservo flies. He isn’t a major airline pilot. Not that it’s an impossible job, but his comments would never be made by someone who actually does it. His are more akin to a bitter FA.

Are you a bitter FA Meatservo?

Managing a complex operation has easy days and very difficult days. There are days I wish it was just button pushing believe me.

[goingnowherefast]

I'm interested in what people think for what is the best start for Pilots (maybe there isn't one) but I have my own thoughts, I would like to hear yours.

BUddy asked a question - I'm pretty sure that he isn't interested in an old-young pi$$ing contest
Back on topic, please...

Float flying gives you a great foundation upon which to build the rest of your career. The lifestyle is generally poor working for float operators, but that's not a big deal when you are 20. It may actually be the lifestyle you want at that age. Work your ass off all summer, then relax and travel all winter. Some float operators are great and it is actually a career for some pilots.

As you gain experience and knowledge, you will progress to other jobs that are more tailored to the lifestyle you want as you grow as a person. Some people want the 200 grand a year job flying a 787 to Hong Kong, other's don't understand the appeal (and unfortunately bash each other for it). Some people work in niche markets with really interesting flying. Once you get the foundation covered, then start chasing the lifestyle.

Despite the bickering, one job is not better than the other. An airshow pilot has great hands and feet, but has no idea about CPDLC, ETOPS, NAT or likely even MELs. An airline pilot won't be able to execute very many aerobatic manoeuvres and certantly not at airshow standards.

My point is start with a float rating, then do what makes you happy. Don't chase big iron or the big pay cheque. Just do what suits what you want out of life.

[complexintentions]

For some people, aviation is more than sitting in a chair in a cheap suit and following rules. There is a physical pleasure in handling an aircraft, particularly on water. There is a sense of accomplishment in staying safe in, shall we say, "austere" conditions. There is a sense of camaraderie among "bush" pilots that you won't find at the "airlines".

Believe it or not, a job, like any number on offer at a popular regional airline I shall not name, where you can sign on with a thousand hours or so of relatively mundane 704 flying under your belt as second in command and a bunch of bogus "pilot in command under supervision" time to boot, and then six months later get upgraded to "captain" because your union number comes up, is not much of an accomplishment. You can drag your wheeled map-case, with no actual maps in it, through a terminal with the gold braid on your cap and the rings that don't even go all the way around your cheap sleeves, and perhaps enjoy the reflected remnants of the respect laypeople have for people like you that was earned by pilots of the past who actually did something worthy of note.

All bullshit.

Your disparaging of airline flying is just as invalid as airline pilots running down float pilots. Funny, I've never felt the need to try and insult those who work in a different niche, and I've never really seen the need to self-loathe like you either.

I consider every day I go to work transporting masses of people safely and efficiently, entrusted with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of machine, "something worthy of note". The equipment really isn't the point, forget aviation even - it's simply about doing any job with excellence. Christ man, take some pride in your work! Maybe you'd actually enjoy it then.

I'm sorry you work somewhere so lacking in camaraderie and self-respect, but please don't have the arrogance to pretend to speak for all "large jet pilots" with your silly comments. I very much enjoy strong camaraderie with my airline colleagues, especially in a company with over 80 nationalities on the flight deck, the pilot "culture" was the only one common to all of us! Maybe it's just the company you work for? Where do you work, anyway? Sounds depressing.

As far as the often-touted "easy, boring, repetitive, not lifting a finger blah blah blah" job that those who don't do it (and a few that do, or say they do) like to try and portray it as: funny thing about that actually. I took the g/f for our first float plane ride with Harbour Air in YYJ a couple years back. Beautiful aerial tour of the city, sat up front and chatted with the pilot, great hands and feet. But let me tell you, his job was just as regimented and "routine" as any airline pilot: 20 minute tours around the city, back down. YVR to YYJ a few times a day. Let's just say he wasn't exactly rhapsodizing about the "physical pleasure of handling an aircraft". Pretty damn dull after the 5,000th time in a row. Hmm.

I thoroughly enjoyed the flight, would do it again, admired and respected his specialized skills. (It never once occurred to me to make infantile remarks about his cheap, company-issued uniform or other job accoutrements).

But one thing is absolutely certain: I would never - ever - trade my lifestyle, pay, experiences, responsibilities, and opportunities for his.

Not. A. Chance.

[Rockie]

I fly with many young pilots, thankfully none of whom so far share Meatservo’s contempt for their chosen occupation. I will say one thing about his comment regarding upgrading though. Seniority doesn’t give one the right to be a Captain, you have to earn that. Seniority gives one the opportunity to try.

Just one of what I’m sure are countless misunderstandings Meatservo has about his own job.

[telex]

I hold a ATPL fixed wing Canada, Australia, USA and Greece.

Also a Canadian Helicopter Pilot License.

And a FAA Commercial Gyroplane Pilot License.

And a European Airdisplay Authority.

Therefore it would appear that I do not need you to explain the process to me son.

Dad you do not have to prove your qualifications to me. If you say you flew a DC3 I'll accept that.

But you are not an airline pilot. You never were. A type rating and some jump seat time does not make you an airline pilot.

I'm bewildered why you think you are an expert opinion on that which you do not know.

[C.W.E.]

If you say you flew a DC3 I'll accept that.

You have no idea how much it means to me to have you say that.

Nothing beats the pleasure of having someone with your experience and skills level accepting my having flown a DC3.

[Eric Janson]

Depends what you call a great job. I admit, lots of money and barely having to lift a finger to a complish anything appeals to a lot of people.

You might ask yourself why anyone would want to be a musician, or a carpenter, or build hot-rods for a living, too, when any of these people are more than smart enough to become an "airline" pilot.

For some people, aviation is more than sitting in a chair in a cheap suit and following rules. There is a physical pleasure in handling an aircraft, particularly on water. There is a sense of accomplishment in staying safe in, shall we say, "austere" conditions. There is a sense of camaraderie among "bush" pilots that you won't find at the "airlines".

Believe it or not, a job, like any number on offer at a popular regional airline I shall not name, where you can sign on with a thousand hours or so of relatively mundane 704 flying under your belt as second in command and a bunch of bogus "pilot in command under supervision" time to boot, and then six months later get upgraded to "captain" because your union number comes up, is not much of an accomplishment. You can drag your wheeled map-case, with no actual maps in it, through a terminal with the gold braid on your cap and the rings that don't even go all the way around your cheap sleeves, and perhaps enjoy the reflected remnants of the respect laypeople have for people like you that was earned by pilots of the past who actually did something worthy of note.

Some people need to feel like they've earned something. You can have your benefits and your union and your "pension", but you're no navigator. You're no adventurer. You're no "commander". If you're even good at flying planes, it's because you do something else with them in your spare time. Some people expect more from their profession. And yes, I fly large jets. I know what I'm talking about.

I also fly large jets - I don't recognise my job in your description.

My company doesn't have a union - keeping my job depends on my performance.

We have Silver stripes - looks much nicer imho. We don't wear caps.

Had a nice BBQ with my crew in Australia recently - no shortage of camaraderie. I work with a great group of people.

My company operates globally with a fleet of 12 aircraft. In March the fleet visited 40 different countries. Not unusual for the phone to ring and then 2 aircraft will be operating halfway around the world 5 days later. It's expected that you are capable of operating anywhere at anytime.

I've been to places as diverse as the Falkland Islands, Greenland, Nigeria and I regularly operate in and out of a military base very few people have ever heard of. Frequently we operate with minimal support. On a recent flight there was no Engineer so I had to organise refuelling, set up the panel and then do the maintenance release. Not unusual to have to organise the loading as well plus we do our own weight and balance and performance calculations. A month ago we were denied entry clearance just short of our destination - had to deal with this after an 11 hour night flight.

The point is - my job is extremely diverse and requires a bit more than pushing buttons.

[mmm..bacon]

Seems old meat is pretty damn good at pushing buttons, though, eh?

[goingnowherefast]

If you say you flew a DC3 I'll accept that.

You have no idea how much it means to me to have you say that.

Nothing beats the pleasure of having someone with your experience and skills level accepting my having flown a DC3.

Don't worry telex, he just repeatedly posts his vast experience in order to brag to internet strangers, but then doesn't care if you believe him or not.
Often the posts are not even relevant to the subject being discussed either, just so long as he gets to post his apparent superiority.

[Zaibatsu]

All we need now is some pictures.

[C.W.E.]

All we need now is some pictures.

Here you go Zaibatsu, just for you.

Here are some pictures of Fi Fi Kate the DC3 I flew for the TV series " Band of Brothers ".

https://www.google.ca/search?q=dc3+fi+f ... 82&bih=540

Of course I realise this is just another case of my self promotion but that is what us ego driven people do.

You must remember these organisations hire only pilots with ego and flying ability has nothing to do with getting those jobs.

[C.W.E.]

I just love this forum because there are so many posters here who never miss a chance to try and put someone else down, like this one just tried.

Cat would say airline flying is easy because he had SIX instructors once on the airbus.....never did any airline flying though, except as a passenger.

And what exactly do you base that statement on atphat?

My first airline flying job was in 1968 with Austin Airways flying the DC3 for several years as both F.O. and Captain, then I went to Northwest Territorial Airways flying the DC3 and the DC6.

Do you think a modern jet is harder to fly than a DC6?

My first turbine flying was as chief pilot for Air West Airlines in 1974.

I got my IFR rating in 1957 by the way

What were you flying back in those years?


















s

[atphat]

yawn....as I said. You only know if you know.

[C.W.E.]

yawn....as I said. You only know if you know.

Very intelligent answer atphat.

I doubt if you were born when I started flying for an airline.

Another difference between you and I atphat is I have posted using my real name on these forums for decades because I like to come across with some credibility....

......anonymity and credibility are polar opposites.

While I am on a roll here I may as well ask another question of you atphat.

Are you one of those posters that have the excuse you have to post under anonymity because your employer does not want to be associated with what you post for fear it would embarrass them?

[confusedalot]

Good for you CWE, not as old as you but at 59, guess I fall into the old category. Also worked for Austin flying the 402's and twin otter, and then 748 at Creebec, but never got to fly the DC3 which I wished I could and have always regretted.

You are right, flying heavy jets is not that big of a deal, even I could do it, and hell even ended up being a line trainer.

Now, for the OP, the choice between doing instruction or bush flying for the first job is a tough one. Consider this, in my time, you needed at least some time in an airplane to even get a float job, lots of guys on the market back then. But, having gone the instructor route, not my first choice mind you, I ended up in an operation that did both instruction and twin engine IFR charter flying. Since I had my twin IFR, ended up doing both, therefore building a not bad logbook, which led to other things down the road, and off to the races so to speak. I suspect that only doing bush flying may be a little more difficult to get out of down the road. If at all possible, would try to avoid the ramp thing if you can; your first hours even doing instruction are worth more than loading bags.

Cheers