NEW ULCCs

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oldtimer
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NEW ULCCs

#1 Post by oldtimer » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:57 am

Now that the new ULCCs have moved the travellers from the bus depot out to the airport, does anyone have any first hand info on the behavior of the great unwashed travelling for what may be their first airline trip?
Also, what happens to my ticket if I miss my connection?
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#2 Post by Zaibatsu » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:39 am

Probably no different than it’s been since the days of People Express and Southwest Airlines.

Your options are the same. Pay more money and move up in surroundings.

But. Often the biggest douchebags sit in First Class.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#3 Post by atphat » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:48 am

Zaibatsu wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:39 am
Probably no different than it’s been since the days of People Express and Southwest Airlines.

Your options are the same. Pay more money and move up in surroundings.

But. Often the biggest douchebags sit in First Class.

Not sure how many times you've sat in J but that statement is completely false in my experience.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#4 Post by MrTurbine » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:34 pm

atphat wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:48 am
Zaibatsu wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:39 am
Probably no different than it’s been since the days of People Express and Southwest Airlines.

Your options are the same. Pay more money and move up in surroundings.

But. Often the biggest douchebags sit in First Class.

Not sure how many times you've sat in J but that statement is completely false in my experience.
And the persons with the most ego sit in the flight deck 😆
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#5 Post by tbaylx » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm

oldtimer wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:57 am
Now that the new ULCCs have moved the travellers from the bus depot out to the airport, does anyone have any first hand info on the behavior of the great unwashed travelling for what may be their first airline trip?
Also, what happens to my ticket if I miss my connection?
Our passengers have been great so far. Lots of young families, and even some first time nervous fliers. There is a bit of a learning curve with the charge for everything plan, the main pushback being grumbling about having to pay for water on board.

There are no connections, you cannot buy a ticket from YXX to YHZ for example. You need to buy two tickets, one from YXX-YHM and another from YHM to YHZ. If you miss the second flight for whatever reason you're on your own. That part of the model will also likely be a learning curve come winter and more IROPS due to weather as pax miss flights and realize they're on their own
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#6 Post by Donald » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:12 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm
having to pay for water on board.

IROPS due to weather as pax miss flights and realize they're on their own
Both should be illegal, in my opinion.

Standby for Gabor Lukacs.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#7 Post by rookiepilot » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:17 pm

Donald wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:12 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm
having to pay for water on board.

IROPS due to weather as pax miss flights and realize they're on their own
Both should be illegal, in my opinion.

Standby for Gabor Lukacs.
I'm totally outraged. I Demand Justice! Photofly fix it!

Oh, nothing has happened. Oh well. :mrgreen:
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#8 Post by sicamore » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm

grumbling about having to pay for water on board.
Do the charge for tap water? I know that health and safety provides workers with access to water. I would think holding a pax on a plane fir 4-6 without access to hydration would be pushing boundries on what is safe.

Even spirit and ryanair have free tap water.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#9 Post by Zaibatsu » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:52 pm


Not sure how many times you've sat in J but that statement is completely false in my experience.
Not often. But planes are small, and cameras are everywhere. Doesn’t take much to find them.

https://youtu.be/3B-aWWnQ8C8

I’ve never had an issue on an ULCC, either. Therefore, ULCCs don’t have douchebags. :rolleyes:
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#10 Post by Old fella » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:43 pm

oldtimer wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:57 am
Now that the new ULCCs have moved the travellers from the bus depot out to the airport, does anyone have any first hand info on the behavior of the great unwashed travelling for what may be their first airline trip?
Also, what happens to my ticket if I miss my connection?
Dunno, those ULCCs are not for me personally. Heading out to YVR outa YHZ in the near future and it will be the AC way, don’t want to have to deal with some of these issues.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4244901/flai ... nd-issues/
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#11 Post by FL007 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:59 am

sicamore wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm

grumbling about having to pay for water on board.
Do the charge for tap water? I know that health and safety provides workers with access to water. I would think holding a pax on a plane fir 4-6 without access to hydration would be pushing boundries on what is safe.

Even spirit and ryanair have free tap water.
Do cabin crew bring pitchers of tap water for service on the flight?

If I was on a bus would I demand water be served?

Bring a bottle of water or two knowing they don't serve water.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#12 Post by sicamore » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:42 am

FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:59 am
sicamore wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm

grumbling about having to pay for water on board.
Do the charge for tap water? I know that health and safety provides workers with access to water. I would think holding a pax on a plane fir 4-6 without access to hydration would be pushing boundries on what is safe.

Even spirit and ryanair have free tap water.
Do cabin crew bring pitchers of tap water for service on the flight?

If I was on a bus would I demand water be served?

Bring a bottle of water or two knowing they don't serve water.
Buses don't have security stopping you from bringing water on board.

Using your same argument:
"If I was on a bus would I demand to have a toilet?
Go to the toilet before you fly......"
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#13 Post by tbaylx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:26 am

sicamore wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm

grumbling about having to pay for water on board.
Do the charge for tap water? I know that health and safety provides workers with access to water. I would think holding a pax on a plane fir 4-6 without access to hydration would be pushing boundries on what is safe.

Even spirit and ryanair have free tap water.
You are welcome to drink as much of the potable water from the lav sink taps as you wish. The only charge is for bottled water sold on board.
If you're paying $49 bucks for a flight you're going to have to expect to buy anything that isn't a seat and a seatbelt. There will certainly be an adjustment period as people get used to the pay for services model but judging by the loads i'd say people are embracing the concept
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#14 Post by FL007 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 am

sicamore wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:42 am
FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:59 am
sicamore wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm


Do the charge for tap water? I know that health and safety provides workers with access to water. I would think holding a pax on a plane fir 4-6 without access to hydration would be pushing boundries on what is safe.

Even spirit and ryanair have free tap water.
Do cabin crew bring pitchers of tap water for service on the flight?

If I was on a bus would I demand water be served?

Bring a bottle of water or two knowing they don't serve water.
Buses don't have security stopping you from bringing water on board.

Using your same argument:
"If I was on a bus would I demand to have a toilet?
Go to the toilet before you fly......"
Very different argument. You can't buy a portable toilet past security for 3$ and bring it on a plane.

That being said after you're past security there's nothing stopping you from buying 5L of water and bringing it on board. Security only screens what you buy before. There's many times I bring my own water on board AC flights so I don't have to wait for service before drinking, an airline is not personally responsible for my physiological needs.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#15 Post by YYZSaabGuy » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:46 am

FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 am
sicamore wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:42 am
FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:59 am


Do cabin crew bring pitchers of tap water for service on the flight?

If I was on a bus would I demand water be served?

Bring a bottle of water or two knowing they don't serve water.
Buses don't have security stopping you from bringing water on board.

Using your same argument:
"If I was on a bus would I demand to have a toilet?
Go to the toilet before you fly......"
Very different argument. You can't buy a portable toilet past security for 3$ and bring it on a plane.

That being said after you're past security there's nothing stopping you from buying 5L of water and bringing it on board. Security only screens what you buy before. There's many times I bring my own water on board AC flights so I don't have to wait for service before drinking, an airline is not personally responsible for my physiological needs.
FL007,

Please knock off with the common-sense, adult approach to dealing with the burning issue of on-board hydration.

Your attitude is completely out of line with the entitlement approach favoured by many industry customers, and will not be tolerated.

Sincerely,

-YYZSaabGuy
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#16 Post by FL007 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:59 am

YYZSaabGuy wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:46 am
FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 am
sicamore wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:42 am


Buses don't have security stopping you from bringing water on board.

Using your same argument:
Very different argument. You can't buy a portable toilet past security for 3$ and bring it on a plane.

That being said after you're past security there's nothing stopping you from buying 5L of water and bringing it on board. Security only screens what you buy before. There's many times I bring my own water on board AC flights so I don't have to wait for service before drinking, an airline is not personally responsible for my physiological needs.
FL007,

Please knock off with the common-sense, adult approach to dealing with the burning issue of on-board hydration.

Your attitude is completely out of line with the entitlement approach favoured by many industry customers, and will not be tolerated.

Sincerely,

-YYZSaabGuy
:lol:
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#17 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:47 am

I bring an empty water bottle with me to the airport and fill it up past security. However I do like my free snack, carry-on bag, frequency of flights, worry-free connections, and occasionally a complimentary pilsner (Porter).
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#18 Post by sicamore » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:50 pm

All sounds like the perfect excuses for our employers to stop supplying us with water.

It is maybe common sense but it is all part of the slide of a toxic capitalistic attitude that is slowing destroying our societies by placing the all mighty dollar over taking care of our fellow humans beings in even the most simple ways

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5225492/s ... six-hours/

Yet it seems you all jump on the band wagon and proudly exlaim, but look at the money the company saves.

Then in the next post you are horrified when the same company tries to also squeeze money out of pilots.

Oh the irony.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#19 Post by FL007 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:06 pm

sicamore wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:50 pm
All sounds like the perfect excuses for our employers to stop supplying us with water.

It is maybe common sense but it is all part of the slide of a toxic capitalistic attitude that is slowing destroying our societies by placing the all mighty dollar over taking care of our fellow humans beings in even the most simple ways

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5225492/s ... six-hours/

Yet it seems you all jump on the band wagon and proudly exlaim, but look at the money the company saves.

Then in the next post you are horrified when the same company tries to also squeeze money out of pilots.

Oh the irony.
No, you have it backwards. Lowering the bar on pilot salary and taking tails/upgrades away from WestJet pilots is unacceptable and shouldn't be part of a business model.

What is in the business model, and what is clearly stated in purchasing these tickets is no frills/no extras. It's literally what passengers signed up for.

The passengers are using the mighty dollar to vote for the way they want to be treated. I'm not going to be flying on an ULCC, as I enjoy service and those extra amenities, so I won't be spending my money on that.

If you don't want to be treated with no frills/no connection protection and despise bringing a bottle of water on a flight etc then I advise you just avoid ULCC.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#20 Post by Lightchop » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:14 pm

FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 am
sicamore wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:42 am
FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:59 am


Do cabin crew bring pitchers of tap water for service on the flight?

If I was on a bus would I demand water be served?

Bring a bottle of water or two knowing they don't serve water.
Buses don't have security stopping you from bringing water on board.

Using your same argument:
"If I was on a bus would I demand to have a toilet?
Go to the toilet before you fly......"
Very different argument. You can't buy a portable toilet past security for 3$ and bring it on a plane.

That being said after you're past security there's nothing stopping you from buying 5L of water and bringing it on board. Security only screens what you buy before. There's many times I bring my own water on board AC flights so I don't have to wait for service before drinking, an airline is not personally responsible for my physiological needs.
Exactly. Before I was a pilot I always brought an empty nalgene bottle with me and filled it up post security.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#21 Post by sicamore » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:16 pm

FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:06 pm
.WestJet pilots is unacceptable and shouldn't be part of a business model
Ok captain myopic. You want your cake and eat it too. I get it, you're very special and have worked hard to get where you are and your low cost operator airline just doesn't seem to get it.

If the business model is to treat customers like bus passengers (comparison used aboved). Don't be surprised when your company treats you like a bus driver.

Even bus drivers don't pick up litter in their buses.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#22 Post by FL007 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:26 pm

sicamore wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:16 pm
FL007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:06 pm
.WestJet pilots is unacceptable and shouldn't be part of a business model
Ok captain myopic. You want your cake and eat it too. I get it, you're very special and have worked hard to get where you are and your low cost operator airline just doesn't seem to get it.

If the business model is to treat customers like bus passengers (comparison used aboved). Don't be surprised when your company treats you like a bus driver.

Even bus drivers don't pick up litter in their buses.
Let's be clear, I'm not a WestJet pilot and I probably never will be, however I, and every colleague I know of followed and supported WestJet pilots through this because it affected us all.

Regardless of how the passengers are choosing to be treated in the back, as again, it is very clear how ULCC pax will be treated, flying of said airplane is the exact same up front.

Just don't fly in ULCCs if you don't agree with them, this white knight attitude of shift in greed, etc is ridiculous as pax are wanting this no frills flying and their individual greed is what creates the demand of this type of service over their own comfort.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#23 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:29 pm

I have no problem with the marketing department "nickle and dime-ing" the customers. Just don't nickle and dime where it matters...maintenance, crewing or anything safety related.
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#24 Post by DanWEC » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:42 pm

Naw, since the customer is paying less for a less luxurious product, the entire crew should could make less money since they're flying less people* in less of a plane, have to deal with less weather, less emergencies, less flow, less GDP....Riiight.

*Pretty sure high density configurations have more people. As far as I'm concerned that means more responsibility. So the pay should be more. No?
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Re: NEW ULCCs

#25 Post by MrWings » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:22 pm

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