Manitoba Govt Air Services to be Privatised

[digits_]

704 requires jets of any size to demonstrate landings within 60% of available LDA before dispatch, accounting for all conditions present etc. 604 and its equivalent in the US, FAR part 91, requires landings within the LDA. The AFM will require further factoring for gravel, wet, or contamination, so it's still somewhat conservative. So the 604 regulations seem on the surface to be equivalent to 703 small aircraft regulations where landings are concerned in that no excess factoring is required for dispatch, but many small turbo props don't address the gravel case with penalties.

Taken as a whole, the jet is regulated like a large airliner for take offs, and like a turbo prop for landings with some small factoring built in, if it's operated in 604. Hardly a dangerous situation. Business jets operate around the world this way and usually are safer than their Air Taxi counterparts.

Thank you for the clarification.

What allowed the province to operate as 604? The pilots were company personnel, but the medics experts were probably paid by the hospitals and the pax/patients were definitely not company personnel. To the untrained eye, it would seem as if it was a 704 operation all along?

[planett]

A State Operator or Government Air Service as applicable is not a business in pursuit of an income or profit by operating the aircraft. Any money that changes hands is simply between government agencies for cost recovery. Patients are not charged for the transport, the taxpayer is. Employees of other departments aren't paying for the seat they occupy but are paid for the function they are available to perform. Nobody can charter a government aircraft for their own use, so government aircraft are only available for things like health care and resource management and protection.

In a privatized model, the taxpayer still pays for the service but the operator is expected to keep some of the revenues above and beyond costs as profit, the aircraft may also be available for other revenue generating activities separate from the government contract, something a 604 operator is forbidden from doing.

[Tailwheelup]

Ontario is a good example of how a Government can screw up a good system by enabling a few to basically steal tax payers funds.
Now that there is a Conservative government in Ontario, it stands to reason, that they could, out of conservative principles,
just tear up ONGE for no other reason than to dismantle what it sees as a socialist experiment gone bad.

My view is that it worked very efficiently prior to ONGE.
However, even in pre ONGE days, I would often see Helicopters being used when it would have been less cost to use
a fixed wing. The reason apparently was because they wanted to give them some flight hours.

[greygoose]

Regarding the air ambulance side of things...I don’t think any company will have an easy time winning this bid. From what I’ve heard the government has actually done a pretty fair job of making the RFP difficult for everyone in their own special way whether it’s past safety issues, TC problems, necessary equipment upgrades (both new additions and modifications), Hangar facilities, bad financial records, staffing issues, being a non MB based business and the list goes on. It’s actually going to be very interesting to watch this all play out and who comes out on top with the most points. Most of us will never see them except for the winning one perhaps, but I think there will be some pretty interesting bids put on the table.

The information I’ve heard is that the winner(if there is one) will get first priority over ALL air ambulance trips both basic and critical. The rest of the trips unable to be done by the primary operator will still be picked up by current operators. So although it’ll cut a good chunk of work out for the non winners it sounds like there will still be plenty to go around with the current trend in air ambulance flights in MB.

The way I see it is if the winning bidder will be able to deliver on all their promises as required by the RFP (and it sounds like there are A LOT) and run near perfect, it’ll be a much more efficient system. However if there are big hiccups with the new primary provider taking it over it could be quite the show. I know if I was in the government there would be one company I’d be avoiding with how their last couple years have gone...no matter who sits on their board.

[digits_]

Regarding the air ambulance side of things...I don’t think any company will have an easy time winning this bid. From what I’ve heard the government has actually done a pretty fair job of making the RFP difficult for everyone in their own special way whether it’s past safety issues, TC problems, necessary equipment upgrades (both new additions and modifications), Hangar facilities, bad financial records, staffing issues, being a non MB based business and the list goes on. It’s actually going to be very interesting to watch this all play out and who comes out on top with the most points. Most of us will never see them except for the winning one perhaps, but I think there will be some pretty interesting bids put on the table.

The information I’ve heard is that the winner(if there is one) will get first priority over ALL air ambulance trips both basic and critical. The rest of the trips unable to be done by the primary operator will still be picked up by current operators. So although it’ll cut a good chunk of work out for the non winners it sounds like there will still be plenty to go around with the current trend in air ambulance flights in MB.

True, but the amended FRP changed the amount of airplanes to a MINIMUM of 7 planes, which means that, technically, the winner could add an unlimited amount of airplanes to get all the work....

[Tailwheelup]

The RFP appears to be written in generic language.
Seven aircraft, that covers most. A lifting system for bariatric patients, that describes Perimeter.

The government is avoiding publicity and keeping it low key, alluding that "no decision"
is the way it will "appear" to go. This could well be a deliberate illusion.


With their emphasis on costs, changing the 15 hour duty day to a 12 hour day,
is unlikely to occur.

If conservative madness happens, they will throw out safety, copy other countries and go single pilot PC-12 and 12 hour shifts.

[greygoose]

The RFP appears to be written in generic language.
Seven aircraft, that covers most. A lifting system for bariatric patients, that describes Perimeter.

The government is avoiding publicity and keeping it low key, alluding that "no decision"
is the way it will "appear" to go. This could well be a deliberate illusion.


With their emphasis on costs, changing the 15 hour duty day to a 12 hour day,
is unlikely to occur.

If conservative madness happens, they will throw out safety, copy other countries and go single pilot PC-12 and 12 hour shifts.

It’s very clear that single pilot and or single engine won’t be considered as the primary aircraft to deliver service so no they won’t be going with either of those options.

Perimeter may have bariatric kits but the Metro II’s are old and as far as I know still don’t have updated avionics on the medevac side of their ops so they’d need to do that to win more points. Plus their issues with TC won’t help any...

If any EIC company has a chance it’s probably Keewatin. But even that will be a large undertaking with having to buy/staff another whole fleet for the MB side of things.

[digits_]

Any updates? According to the timeline in the original RFP the final negotiations should be finished by now.

[greygoose]

I believe they had extended all the dates at least a couple weeks because of interest in viewing the aircraft for sale that would be used in the proposals. That’s the last I heard, not sure if it’s been extended again. I believe the interviews for the short list should have wrapped up last week according to amended dates but that’s all I’ve heard as of recently.

[North Shore]

RFP has closed; several proposals in; proceed direct to CYWG, hold North, etc... EFC end of October.

[leftoftrack]

isnt ornge private?

[tsgas]

The RFP appears to be written in generic language.
Seven aircraft, that covers most. A lifting system for bariatric patients, that describes Perimeter.

The government is avoiding publicity and keeping it low key, alluding that "no decision"
is the way it will "appear" to go. This could well be a deliberate illusion.


With their emphasis on costs, changing the 15 hour duty day to a 12 hour day,
is unlikely to occur.

If conservative madness happens, they will throw out safety, copy other countries and go single pilot PC-12 and 12 hour shifts.

you socialists really have a hatred for conservatives. FYI communism always fails wherever it is implemented.

[digits_]

*bump*

So who's the lucky one?

[North Shore]

No word yet...rumour mill says December now..

[magic wand]

No word yet...rumour mill says December now..

My sources are telling me that "big red" out west, has pretty well been selected to take over the fire suppression
portion of the operations.

[FighterPilot]

Also heard they’re going to announce Fire suppression, general transportation then the air ambulance in that order. Likely delays between the announcements.

[angry inch]

https://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html? ... 2018-11-29

MANITOBA ENTERS INTO AGREEMENT FOR SUPPRESSION OF WILDFIRES

The government of Manitoba has entered into an agreement with Babcock Canada Inc. to provide services for the suppression of wildfires, including the use of water bombers, Infrastructure Minister Ron Schuler announced today. The transaction is the result of a competitive request for proposal (RFP) process initiated earlier this year.

“Our government is committed to protecting Manitobans from wildfires and that’s what this agreement delivers,” said Schuler. “It will ensure faster response times, enhanced safety and a superior aircraft maintenance program. It will make Manitoba’s wildfire suppression system even better.”

Babcock has over 30 years of fixed and rotary wing aerial firefighting experience throughout Europe. For Manitoba, it will work in partnership with Air Spray, an experienced, safe and effective provider of fire-suppression services with long-term contracts in a number of Canadian provinces and the United States, the minister said.

In accordance with the terms of the RFP, the Manitoba government will retain ownership of its seven active water bombers. The deployment of those key pieces of the wildfire suppression system will remain under the direction of Manitoba Wildfire Program staff.

“The aircraft will always serve Manitoba’s needs first, and may only be deployed outside the province with the government’s consent and direction,” said Schuler.

Through long-term and existing mutual assistance agreements, neighbouring jurisdictions have access to Manitoba’s water bombers, pending availability and approval from the Manitoba Wildfire Program. In turn, Manitoba has access to other aircraft for fire-suppression emergencies. The minister noted the majority of Canadian provinces use private carriers for all wildfire suppression services. Manitoba’s Wildfire Program currently uses private carriers for some bird-dog services, helicopters and crew transportation services.

Representatives of Babcock will be meeting with affected government employees in the very near future to discuss employment opportunities under the new operating structure, Schuler said.

An RFP process remains underway for both general transportation air services and for air ambulance services, the minister noted, adding that once those RFP processes are completed, all air services agreements will be publicly disclosed.

[shaune]

Never heard of this Babcock.
I disagree that the "majority of Canadian provinces use private carriers for all wildfire suppression services". I count Sask, Ontario, Quebec and NFLD, and until now Manitoba which made 5. B.C. Ab, Territories and NB are private.
I really can't see this being a win for the province of Manitoba. It cost X to run those airplanes. Now it will be X plus profit. Where will the profit come from ? Cut staff ? Cut wages ? They say the service won't be cut. The costs are off the Manitoba books I guess but the bill will still need to be paid. HUH, I dunno.

[fish4life]

My guess is the ability to run the aircraft year round will yield the cost savings.

[Pacqing]

Is it part of the Bond UK helicopter group?