Float Plane Insurance

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efestian
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Float Plane Insurance

Post by efestian »

I am a private pilot with 130 of total time. I owned (and recently sold) a cherokee 140 which I gained most of my hours. I now live on water in Northern Ontario and am looking to buy a 180 or 182 on straight floats.

My question is about insurance. yes, i get it is a lot more than on wheels. Since I have zero hours on floats, I plan to get my float endorsement with Sudbury Aviation (or similar) which will get me about 7 to 12 hours. It is my understanding that I need around 25 hours on floats to get insured. So if I buy a plane, is my only option to ferry it? then how do I get more hours on floats to get insurance to fly my plane? Any suggestions from those that have any experience on this chicken and egg scenario.

Thanks.
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AR705
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by AR705 »

When I bought my plane it was on wheels but had floats. I changed it over and insurance covered me for my float endorsement at no extra cost or expectation from them. So I guess it depends on your insurance company. I've heard the 25 hrs from others, but didn't apply to me. My rate has been more or less the same since I bought my plane with 12 hours of total time. There was a small extra fee while I was a student pilot. I think it was a couple hundred a year. So if the same as my insurance coverage, you just need someone with a float endorsement to ferry for you or with you, and then do your rating. A 180/182 on straight floats will be fun!!
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C.W.E.
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by C.W.E. »

You can do several things.

First of all you """ MUST """" have public liability to fly it period.

As to hull insurance you can fly the twenty five hours without it, just don't wreck it.

The best way to get the twenty five hours is with a high time float plane pilot dual.

Flying floats is the third best fun kind of flying.

First is gyroplanes.

Second is helicopters.
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Bede
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by Bede »

Get COPA personal liability.

Also, I had students who did their PPL on their float plane. They got insurance at a reasonable price even though they had next to no float (or any) experience. Floats aren't that difficult IMO.
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BearForceOne
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by BearForceOne »

Welcome to the exciting world of float flying! It’s the most fun you can have with an airplane, imho. Go and get that endorsement and then build time however you can - find a friend to fly with or buy hours through your FTU, if you must. There are also 25 hour “bush flying” courses out there. I’m sure other forum members or your insurance broker can recommend a good one. Gain real world experience in wind and, more importantly, lack thereof (glassy water). Practice docking until you can do it blindfolded. Beach a plane and run a river. Take an underwater emergency egress course. But most importantly, forget the hours the insurance company requires. Build the time YOU need to feel comfortable and safe. Then buy a floatplane. I did my entire CPL on floats and it horrifies me to imagine being turned loose after just the basic endorsement...
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matt17
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by matt17 »

I recently completed my RPP entirely on floats at Sudbury Aviation and was quite happy with my training there. They also rent their 172 float planes for solo time building after the completion of the rating. Would be another option for building float time if required. They also offer a 10 hour "bush" course the completion of which allows you to be able to rent the plane and land/takeoff at lakes other than their Whitewater base. I cannot speak to the content of the bush course as I just completed the license and for now am happy to just get up for a few sightseeing flights with my wife from their base.
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BGH
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by BGH »

Been there,done that.I had 5 hours in a super cub when I bought a 185 on cap 3000’s;instructor checked me out in the 185 while I checked him out on Vancouver International’s procedures.
First find either an insurance broker or an organization that can give you advice on what they will need to insure you in the aircraft you choose,ask if they will insure you to learn in the aircraft.Before you actually purchase the aircraft & armed with the above information go speak to who you would like to take your instruction with & see if they will work with you.
There may not be just a mimimum time on floats,there might also be an until pilot demonstrates competence in type.

Daryl
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tps8903
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by tps8903 »

efestian wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:23 pm
I am a private pilot with 130 of total time. I owned (and recently sold) a cherokee 140 which I gained most of my hours. I now live on water in Northern Ontario and am looking to buy a 180 or 182 on straight floats.

My question is about insurance. yes, i get it is a lot more than on wheels. Since I have zero hours on floats, I plan to get my float endorsement with Sudbury Aviation (or similar) which will get me about 7 to 12 hours. It is my understanding that I need around 25 hours on floats to get insured. So if I buy a plane, is my only option to ferry it? then how do I get more hours on floats to get insurance to fly my plane? Any suggestions from those that have any experience on this chicken and egg scenario.

Thanks.
What other said re skipping the hull insurance until you have enough hours. There are 3 insurance companies that I know of that underwrite in Canada. Check all three or call a broker.

If you need help ferrying a float plane, send me a PM. If I'm around I can fly it with you and you can log some hours.

Cheers.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by PilotDAR »

Understand that insurers are all about understanding risk. Sometimes they don't quite have the facts as they relate to your personal situation, so they'll generalize - in their favour. And, they have a lot of experience - some of it bad. So they know what they've been through, and had to pay out for before - some things you haven't thought of yet. You can have a small accident with a floatplane in a place which becomes a big claim, because it's remote, and there's further damage to the plane before what has happened is mitigated. A hole in the float may not be a bid deal - until the plane sinks, and they have hire a dive team and a helicopter to get it out.

So, find a broker you like (I'm sure people will PM you recommendations if you need). Discuss with them how you will operate the aircraft in your early days to mitigate risk. It's already been mentioned to not seek hull insurance for the beginning of your experience building. If you can afford the risk, this is a good idea. It'll save you money, perhaps make otherwise unobtainable insurance now obtainable, and knowing you're flying at your risk, you'll be careful! Next, commit to progressive experience building: for your first X hours, you'll limit yourself to certain lakes, and certain gentle conditions. You'll seek some more mentoring after a few dozen hours. You'll limit your carriage of passengers in the beginning, and you'll always assure that all occupants wear a life jacket.

Simply a recognition that you want to build experience cautiously may make you more attractive as a client to the insurers. I have found aviation insurance companies very good to deal with. Occasionally I have encountered a broker who seemed very inexperienced, and I had to help them understand why I was a low risk for them.
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efestian
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by efestian »

Thanks to everyone for your responses and advise. Rest assured, to those that commented on gaining experience, that I am exactly that type of pilot! Experience is everything. I used to think the cross-country part of my PPL was a joke until I flew my Cherokee 140 to Florida and back. WHAT A DIFFERENCE in the pilot I was before that trip to the pilot I was when I got back. It was only 25 hours of experience, but I was 10x the pilot and my radio work was miles better.

Not sure I am interested in self insuring (liability only) a $120+ aircraft. I will start with the float endorsement and then it will probably only be 10 or so hours until I reach 25 hours. My main issue is simply getting the plane to my home so i can stare at it. Really 10 hours on the Sudbury 172 is only around $2k to build some experience.
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ahramin
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by ahramin »

Or you could do those 10 hours flying your aircraft home with an instructor. Win win.
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golden hawk
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by golden hawk »

Re hull insurance....if you have borrowed money from a financial institution to buy the plane, they'll most likely insist you have hull insurance.
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sheephunter
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by sheephunter »

Got a 180 on floats that I will be selling or looking for a partner. I am CPL and will be bringing it home from Northern Quebec. 10 hours flying time right there. Sometimes it takes a day, sometimes a week. Will be doing this sometime in late Aug. Get 10 hours in the plane and decide if it is a 180 that you want or not? Only thing, it's expensive to get to where the plane is right now.
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efestian
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Re: Float Plane Insurance

Post by efestian »

Where is it? Are you just looking for a co-pilot to make the trip with you?
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