COPA Membership

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Taco Joe
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COPA Membership

#1 Post by Taco Joe » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:03 pm

Hi all,
I had a COPA membership when I was back in college and cancelled it after I graduated to save some money many years ago. Now that I've got some disposable income and am looking at re-subscribing to some magazines and re-joining some organisations (e.g., COPA, OFAH, etc.). I was wondering if anyone would recommend going back to them?

I probably wouldn't use any of the hotel/car/insurance benefits as I get enough of those through work and other groups that I'm part of, I guess I would mainly be going back for the newsletter. I remember it being fairly decent back in the day. How has the writing been recently? Are they still putting out good articles?
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Re: COPA Membership

#2 Post by Cessna 180 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:48 pm

I'm an EAA member and I enjoy the magazines and the discount if you go to Oshkosh. Has pretty much all of the same benefits COPA comes with and free access to a large number of museums around the world (I haven't tried this yet). I'm not a COPA member yet, but they do (at least try) and do a bunch to support General Aviation in Canada. I'll likely join at some point.
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Re: COPA Membership

#3 Post by AirFrame » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 am

If you're flying GA in Canada and aren't supporting COPA, you're getting a free ride on the backs of all of the people at COPA working to keep GA alive. A lot of it goes on behind the scenes and they don't toot their own horns about it enough, IMO.

That said, I think they really sh*t the bed on the time, effort, and probably money that went into launching the new logo and website. Too much marketing hype and not enough substance, in my opinion. But if it appeals more to the younger crowd, then maybe that's what we need.
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Re: COPA Membership

#4 Post by MrWings » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:59 am

AirFrame wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 am
That said, I think they really sh*t the bed on the time, effort, and probably money that went into launching the new logo and website.
Totally disagree. They have brought the logo and website into the 21st century. Well worth the effort.

It's the changing of the guard at COPA. Out go the dinosaurs and in come the new faces and ideas. About time. I walked away during the Doug Ronan coup lead by Kevin Psutka. This new direction has brought me back.

I think the BC General Aviation Association is the model to follow.
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AirFrame
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Re: COPA Membership

#5 Post by AirFrame » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:23 am

MrWings wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:59 am
They have brought the logo and website into the 21st century. Well worth the effort.
I agree both needed modernizing, but I think they gave away too much of the history with the new logo. I respect that others really like it, and recognize that it's mostly the older guys who prefer the old one. As I said, if that's what it takes to bring in new people, great! I'm all for it.

The website needed a refresh, but the direction they've gone is a lot of large pictures with very little information. You have to scroll through a lot of flashy photos to get to what you want and then click through to read it. It used to be that you'd get a feed of news stories, and if you wanted to see the photos you'd click through to a gallery. Now it seems the gallery is what you get first, with a one-sentence title, and you click through to read one story at at time. Maybe that also reflects on the old guard preferring to get more detailed information, and new members preferring flashy photos and sound bites. A product of the iPhone generation, I guess.
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Re: COPA Membership

#6 Post by Lightchop » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:28 am

I don't fly GA so COPA has never really been on my radar. I went to check the site out and honestly I think it looks great. Although I'm likely the age group they are after (early 30's) with the design. It's well laid out, easy to navigate. Has a lot of photos and easy to find articles.

I don't know why anyone would be against this current site. I haven't seen the old one, but I gather this is a million times nicer. Then again I am a millennial. :lol:
The website needed a refresh, but the direction they've gone is a lot of large pictures with very little information. You have to scroll through a lot of flashy photos to get to what you want and then click through to read it. It used to be that you'd get a feed of news stories, and if you wanted to see the photos you'd click through to a gallery. Now it seems the gallery is what you get first, with a one-sentence title, and you click through to read one story at at time. Maybe that also reflects on the old guard preferring to get more detailed information, and new members preferring flashy photos and sound bites
Not sure if you go anywhere other than COPA and AVCanada on the internet, but that is literally how every single new site is organized these days. It has nothing to do with the "iPhone generation." It has everything to do with ease of navigation and being easy on the eyes. If I'm honest my parents in their 60s use Facebook, Instagram and those DARN iPhones more than I do. Personally I can't stand the sites that are all text with few photos and set up like it's the 90s. Barnstormers comes to mind.
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Re: COPA Membership

#7 Post by AirFrame » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:21 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:28 am
Personally I can't stand the sites that are all text with few photos and set up like it's the 90s. Barnstormers comes to mind.
Yep, I think that must be generational then. I find Barnstormers perfectly functional (although some aspects are rather MySpace-ey).

The new Canadian Plane Trade is a great example of what has been done poorly, IMO. Compare the Printed version, https://copanational.org/en/canadian-plane-trade/ with the online version, https://www.canadianplanetrade.ca/en/all-ads/.

The printed version has a picture of the plane and complete text of the ad next to it. Because you pay by the word, you have to think about the most important things to put in the ad, rather than blather on for an entire page. It's very high-density, most relevant (usually) information.

In the online version, it's initially just photos. No text. When you mouse-over the photo it greys out the image, and puts a little box in the middle that says "View Ad". Well, no sh*t, right? What *else* would you expect it to do if you clicked on the image? Never mind that it would have been easier to just make the entire photo a clickable link to take you to the ad, they actually block what you're trying to look at, and require you to hit a smaller target on the screen.

A little better is the "List view" which puts all the images down one side and with the first few lines of the description next to it. That's better, right? Well, click on a link from there, read the ad, and then click your browser's back button to go back to the list. Now you're back at the Gallery view, and have to click on the List button again. It doesn't remember the setting you chose.

It's just very poor User Interface / User Experience design, IMO.
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Re: COPA Membership

#8 Post by Taco Joe » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:28 am

Thank you all for the input. I've been talking with a friend that wants to go in on an airplane, so maybe the classifieds would be useful (even if the online version apparently sucks).

No one has commented on the magazine though, so I'll ask again. Are the articles still good?
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Re: COPA Membership

#9 Post by AirFrame » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:26 am

Yes, the articles are still great, IMO. I didn't like the new form factor initially, but it's growing on me. Much more convenient for reading on the bus.
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Re: COPA Membership

#10 Post by ctmorawetz » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:48 am

I am one of the new directors elected to COPA in the last round of elections. We are working on some new things to bring more value to the COPA membership. If you have been a member in the past, give us a look again. If not, give us a shot for the first time.
To answer your question about the magazine, the articles are written by the members for the members. Anyone that is a COPA member can submit an article, so the content changes month to month. There are a few recurring segments on technology, careers and aviation insurance but for the most part, the articles contain new content each month.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about COPA. I represent Southern Ontario but can refer to the person that represent your area if you need assistance.

Blue skies!
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Re: COPA Membership

#11 Post by Kejidog » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:41 pm

I am a member and have been since i started my PPL. I am an owner and a pilot so it was a good fit.

My beef with COPA is the magazine has poor editing. In a recent article on a online training program they failed to list the website where someone could sign up. It was repeated verbatim in Canadian Aviator with the same missing info. They share articles almost monthly so reading one is like reading the other. I have noticed this on a few issues and articles.

Also while trying to access our flight information from the national organization to see who locally is a member recently the office said they had no way of making a list of the registered flight members.... but could group them by postal code wtf?
Database much? When you sign up you have to declare an affiliate flight so why can’t they compile it
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Re: COPA Membership

#12 Post by ctmorawetz » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:46 pm

Kejidog wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:41 pm
I am a member and have been since i started my PPL. I am an owner and a pilot so it was a good fit.

My beef with COPA is the magazine has poor editing. In a recent article on a online training program they failed to list the website where someone could sign up. It was repeated verbatim in Canadian Aviator with the same missing info. They share articles almost monthly so reading one is like reading the other. I have noticed this on a few issues and articles.

Also while trying to access our flight information from the national organization to see who locally is a member recently the office said they had no way of making a list of the registered flight members.... but could group them by postal code wtf?
Database much? When you sign up you have to declare an affiliate flight so why can’t they compile it
That makes sense as COPA Flight and Canadian Aviator are published by the same publisher. The thing that separates the COPA magazine from Canadian Aviator is that the COPA magazine relies on member based content to fill the magazine. If they don't receive enough, then there is some cross over articles. COPA members are encouraged to submit articles if that have something that they want to contribute. As for the editing of the magazine, you can write to russ@copaflight.ca to express your editing concerns.

Regarding the membership list question, the National Office says there are privacy concerns with that. Personally, it is something that I would like to see published in a members only section of our website, so that members would have the opportunity to network within COPA. I agree, that it could be done, as COPA has the contact information of their members.
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Re: COPA Membership

#13 Post by perlgerl » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:30 am

I have found the information in the COPA Flight magazine incomplete and erroneous, especially the articles written by COPA staff.

In my opinion, the best magazine is EAA's Sport Aviation. Other good ones are AOPA Pilot and Cessna Flyer.
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Re: COPA Membership

#14 Post by Lost Lake » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:32 am

I'm a silver member. I mainly belong to support general aviation. They do a great job advocating for the private sector. Everyone should support them jjust for that! I mainly fly commercially, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the magazine and again, supporting the great job they do by ensuring general aviation, the grass roots of flying, doesn't get steam rolled by government regulations that only pertain to the 705 World.
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Re: COPA Membership

#15 Post by Oldguystrtn2fly » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:45 am

I did not renew this year. I contacted the director closest to me for a issue directly involving aviation to see if COPA could lend any support or guidance about municipal interference in aviation, and I received no interest or reply. Another guy that had also said he contacted them prior to me said he spoke with COPA but they were not interested in helping. I thought perhaps he was just taking the easy route and had not actually contacted them so i tried myself. So i got involved and wrote some letters to the county and actually in fairly short order, got the result I was after. So i forwarded the result to COPA, every director email listed on there website at the time, thanked them for ignoring my email and told them I would do the same with there renewal email when my membership was due. I then got several responses...Sorry to little to late. I like what they should stand for but my direct experience was severely lacking. I have to vote with my wallet.
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Re: COPA Membership

#16 Post by ahramin » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:39 am

The idea that we can just pay our COPA dues and magically be protected is a dangerous one. Yes COPA can help with national issues but if we want GA to survive we need to do everything we can locally to keep it visible and friendly in our local area. Oldguys story of communicating directly with policy makers should be something we all keep in mind as soon as a problem becomes apparent. In the meantime try not to have an invisible airport reserved for the flying elite. My airport has an open house and fly in every year where the public is very much invited and encouraged to come out and they do. Young Eagles and COPA for kids is an excellent pr tool as long as the kids are from outside the aviation community.
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Re: COPA Membership

#17 Post by Jungle Jim » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:33 pm

Guys

I left after the Doug Ronan issue and found that there is life after COPA. They haven’t fixed the wrong they did and changed bylaws to justify their actions. I will not be back.

Jim
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Re: COPA Membership

#18 Post by Kejidog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:09 pm

I am a memeber and will continue to be as long as I own and fly. Myself and a few others are trying to breathe life into our under used Flight. I hope we can succeed locally. I would love to see the COPA profile rise up at least here where I am. Without an active flight it is hard to expect any support from any local government or community groups for General Aviation. Nobody should expect to pay their dues and have someone else do the lifting. The purpose of a local flight i think is basically outreach locally. Being an ambassador for flying is seriously needed to counter every nay sayer who hates the noise or whatever they are up after when they are looking to shut down airstrips. The national organization can not do this it is up to the local flights.
But it is hard to get even people who fly interested. This summer I participated in a Copa For Kids at CYSU. It was amazing to see the enthusiasm of the future of aviation. Hopefully everyone who owns and flies for fun would join and participate in Flight events. I am still pretty new to flying and not too jaded yet.
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Re: COPA Membership

#19 Post by BGH » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:53 pm

I was member 1400860 for over 20 years & have owned & flown my own 185 for almost 35 years.I sent many messages to all the hiarchy of copa when hearing about the absolutely illegal way they handled Doug Ronan & was told in no uncertain terms that if I didn’t like it then just leave so I did,asked for the two years of dues left on my 3 year renewal & was told “we don’t do refunds”.
You can still volunteer to help with copa for kids,as for the rest of it - nobody even contacted me to see if I might be interested in rejoining after the management change.
My aircraft still flies the same without the copa decal on it.

Daryl
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Re: COPA Membership

#20 Post by Oldguystrtn2fly » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:10 am

Nobody should pay there dues and expect someone else to do the heavy lifting? Should someone pay there dues and expect a response of any kind regarding inquiry about a GA related issue? Why would they post the email addresses of the directors across the country? Is it just to,pretend they are there to be contacted? I got nothing. I would hope that a non member would get at least a response for an inquiry. As a member in good standing I fucking well expect a response. I don’t need to like the response but I damn well deserved one. Full stop.
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Re: COPA Membership

#21 Post by AirFrame » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:34 am

Jungle Jim wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:33 pm
I left after the Doug Ronan issue and found that there is life after COPA. They haven’t fixed the wrong they did and changed bylaws to justify their actions. I will not be back.
I thought about it, but when the idiots at the helm who caused the Doug Ronan issue left, guess what? Doug got re-elected and is back. And the "old guard" was weeded out. So yes, it was screwed up for a little while there, but they are fixing it.
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Re: COPA Membership

#22 Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:47 am

Yes, as AirFrame says it's all resolved now and Doug is back as a director. Time to rejoin COPA...they seem to be doing a great job!
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Re: COPA Membership

#23 Post by BGH » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:19 am

Perhaps the current copa management could contact previous former members & ask them if with the leadership change they might be interested in giving it another try.
Once people have a good reason to leave an organization they tend to not return,especially when they clearly state the reason & are actually told to leave.

Daryl
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