Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

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Bede
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Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by Bede »

So I purchased a homebuilt floatplane (Avid Magnum - similar to Kitfox). Both my wife and I (ATPL, FI, etc) will be flying it. The insurance company requires each of us to have a letter of proficiency from a flight instructor prior to solo, which is silly. There may very well be pilots out there who are more familiar with the aircraft than I am, from whom I could learn a lot, but they likely aren't flight instructors. Then there are also instructors out there, again whom I could learn a lot from, but won't be familiar with the aircraft. Throw in that it's on floats and the intersection of the sets in the Venn diagram (flight instructor, time on type, floats time) likely only has one pilot in it: me.

So, I guess I'll sign off my wife, at which point, she'll turn around and sign me off.

Has anyone ever run into this sort of thing before? What did you do about it? I asked the broker and they had no idea, so I guess we'll stick to checking each other out.
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C-GKNT
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by C-GKNT »

If you have a specific pilot in mind you want to do the checkout but they don't meet the insurance companies requirements, just send a request to the insurance company naming the pilot and listing their qualifications.

While I only had my PPL at the time, an insurance company approved me to do a checkout for another pilot even though they wanted a CFI. However, I had over 500 hours in type. Told the insurance company it was either me or a green CFI with 0 time in type, it was approved without issue.

Glenn
P.S. Sounds like a fun plane :D
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PilotDAR
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by PilotDAR »

Has anyone ever run into this sort of thing before? What did you do about it?
Often. I would look for a different broker. Yes, Instructors can be great, and very few have any experience on odd types. A good broker knows that the knowledge base for odd types is often not with instructors. Most instructors do not have the opportunity to accumulate lots of experience on odd types. At best, they realize this, and don't attempt to do checkouts on those types.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by C.W.E. »

What PilorDAR said is correct.

Insurance companies are in business to make money not lose it.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by jakeandelwood »

you have to play games with insurance companies. just tell them you cant find an instructor with any time on type, its pointless if the instructor has no time in the specific type. when i bought my Cessna 210 they wanted me to do a checkout with an instructor who had 200 hrs on a 210, most instructors don't even have much more than that in total time. Half the instructors i talked to didn't even know what a 210 was. they ended up saying any commercial pilot with some time on type was good enough.
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ahramin
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by ahramin »

Common issue. They will always ask for a checkout with an instructor, then will always approve a checkout with any specific pilot with time on type. Thing is though, they never specify that the instructor needs any qualifications other than being an instructor. I recently spent 2 weeks arguing with the underwriters through the broker about this very issue. New homebuilt ready for it's first flight. I've flown similar types, including the smaller version made by the same kit company. Lots of experience in tailwheel planes, in homebuilts, in flight test, but they want a checkout with an instructor ... on the first flight of a newly built aircraft. And the EAA broker couldn't understand why I thought they were out to lunch. So I can totally ignore that it's the first flight of a new homebuilt, hope everything on it is perfect and that our stall speed is exactly as predicted in the sales brochure, and go fly around doing slow flight, stalls, and short field landings, and bring along a passenger who has never flown a homebuilt or a tailwheel aircraft but has an instructor rating, and they're happy. But fly it myself without a checkout on type. No way.

In the end we just saved the 3k and flew it naked, so if the insurance company is in business to make money, they're failing.

Anyway Bede, just go fly it like you said and check each other out. Don't try to turn their joke into something serious, it's not possible.
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Posthumane
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by Posthumane »

I had a somewhat similar situation when I bought a homebuilt. The insurance company required a checkout with an instructor. An instructor friend of mine has a lot of time on different types of airplanes (aerobatic, tailwheel, etc) so I added him onto the policy for the purpose of the checkout. When I got the policy back, it had both of our names on it, but both subject to a 5 hour checkout with an instructor. When I asked the insurance company about it they told me that my instructor friend needs the 5 hour checkout if he's going to be flying the aircraft SOLO. If he is just checking ME out on it, he does not require any qualifications other than being a flight instructor.
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"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -George Bernard Shaw

BGH
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Re: Insurance type checkouts-checking out one another

Post by BGH »

I ran into this when going from straight floats to Amphibs on my 185,first insurance company wanted 25 hours with an instructor.Second insurance company wants a checkout until competent with a pilot rated commercial or higher & completely familiar with aircraft type in it’s current configuration(can’t remember all the other stuff off hand).
I changed to the second insurance company & will require a signed letter from the person instructing me - was with the first broker for over 15 years.

Brokers don’t always know what they’re doing - ask me some time about my friend being requested to renew his cat 3B rating to be covered on my 185 on floats.

Daryl
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