Airbus VS Boeing

[pianokeys]

Which one is nicer to fly is subjective to the pilot. Its like asking if you like to wipe front to back, or back to front.

If you like a leaky cockpit, the 737 is for you. If youre a hipster, the 737 is for you because the overhead panel is "old school."

[Rockie]

[quote=pelmet post_id=<a href="tel:1051085">1051085</a> time=<a href="tel:1536008933">1536008933</a> user_id=4697]
[quote=Rockie post_id=<a href="tel:1050885">1050885</a> time=<a href="tel:1535798266">1535798266</a> user_id=5632]
Correction regarding Asiana, they didn’t crash because they couldn’t fly without automation. They crashed because they didn’t understand the automation they had. If only automation in these airplanes was as simple as “On/Off” but it isn’t. It’s complex and requires skill and comprehensive knowledge to operate safely in all conditions and circumstances.

Disagree with both actually although the quoted post is on the right track. However, it goes deeper. Not understanding the automation was the start of the problem but I would be willing to bet that many new airline pilots on type don't fully understand the automation and have unknowingly screwed things up at some point with an undesired thrust setting yet didn't crash. The question is, how do you discover it. Closely monitor your airspeed on approach and maybe your thrust setting. I not very familiar with the Airbus but an Airbus guy told me recently of a flight into an airport in Florida. The other pilot set the missed approach altitude and pulled the button(I think the altitude button) which made the aircraft add thrust(exact details could be wrong) yet the thrust levers don't move. He noticed the airspeed increasing and they did something about it.
[/quote]

Yes.

For once I agree with pelmet. It's fine to cite automation, lack of its understanding, whatever, as contributing factors to this accident. Blather on endlessly about swiss cheese models and yada yada. But ultimately it was a complete, utter, total lack - or temporary breakdown of, if one needs to be charitable - of basic flying skills that caused this. And not of just one pilot, but THREE sitting in a flight deck! Good God, if I'm on an observer seat I'd be screeching like an old lady. Not Because I'm . Yeager, just out of self-preservation!

AIRSPEED! ffs.

At that point WHO CARES what the automation is doing, should do, should theoretically do, was designed to do, did I read that FCOM chapter correctly, what's the SOP again?, etc...FLY IT! Make it do what you want, or get out of there.

Wasn't done. Predictable outcome.

But hey. Must be the automation.
[/quote]

We don’t know if they could fly without automation, we do know they had trouble flying with it because of misunderstanding of how it works. What followed had lots of contributing factors including cultural biases that prevented the others in the crew from “screeching like an old lady”. Old, and well documented issue in Korean society that they still obviously haven’t completely overcome in aviation.

[complexintentions]

We don’t know if they could fly without automation, we do know they had trouble flying with it because of misunderstanding of how it works. What followed had lots of contributing factors including cultural biases that prevented the others in the crew from “screeching like an old lady”. Old, and well documented issue in Korean society that they still obviously haven’t completely overcome in aviation.

We also don't know if the other two PM heroes didn't say anything due to cultural bias, or simply didn't notice the ridiculous airspeed. Apparently the "Airspeed Low" Master Caution and other assorted warnings weren't strong enough hints.

Anyway you look at it, not aviation's proudest moment.

[pelmet]

Yes.

For once I agree with pelmet. It's fine to cite automation, lack of its understanding, whatever, as contributing factors to this accident. Blather on endlessly about swiss cheese models and yada yada. But ultimately it was a complete, utter, total lack - or temporary breakdown of, if one needs to be charitable - of basic flying skills that caused this. And not of just one pilot, but THREE sitting in a flight deck!

AIRSPEED! ffs.

At that point WHO CARES what the automation is doing, should do, should theoretically do, was designed to do, did I read that FCOM chapter correctly, what's the SOP again?, etc...FLY IT! Make it do what you want, or get out of there.

Wasn't done. Predictable outcome.

But hey. Must be the automation.

So for once, you are right But seriously, the whole point is furthering safety with lessons learned. While extremely rare in the airline world, not paying attention to airspeed is a leading cause of accidents on the general aviation world.

But it has happened before to an airliner and it is the main cause of the Asiana accident by the guy flying the airplane regardless of what the other pilots or automation were or were not doing.....

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19870831-0

[Eric Janson]

So.. which one is nicer to fly?

Flown 737-300/757/767 on the Boeing side

Flown A320/A330/A340 on the airbus side

I've enjoyed flying all of them. All of them can be safely flown with the Automatics off.

If I had to chose then it would be the 757 on the Boeing side - a capable fun aircraft to fly.

On the airbus side it would be the A340 especially the -500 which is the nicest handling fly-by-wire aircraft I've flown.

[GRK2]

Lessee...the A330-200 was a pretty good improvement over the old A320's for hand flying. But in my opinion, it's gotta be the Queen. I didn't get to fly the 74 Classic, but the -400 was a joy! You could actually fly it on one engine (had to be #2 0r #3) but it would hold altitude at around 1000 agl if it was reasonably light and handled properly. My old TRE would have us do the 2 INOP ILS then have us do a go around and fail the remaining outboard...just to demonstrate that it would do it. You needed a boot full of rudder but it would go.

As far as losing it while manually handling it, has no one mentioned that EK B777 crash in DXB? No thrust levers pushed up after a bounce and an attempted go around... How about that for having a head up a bum?

[Eric Janson]

As far as losing it while manually handling it, has no one mentioned that EK B777 crash in DXB? No thrust levers pushed up after a bounce and an attempted go around... How about that for having a head up a bum?

An increasing problem in some parts of the world is promoting people well beyond their level of ability.

I worked at an Airline in Asia where you could see the Reason Model (holes lining up) happening for real!